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Today's Topics:
1. Re: McGill University Electric Snowmobile Team website
(Doug Hartley)
2. Re: Delivery Van (Pestka, Dennis J)
3. Re: article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport (Jeff Shanab)
4. Re: Is this a vaible motor? (Jeff Shanab)
5. Re: article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport (Will Schmit)
6. Ni-Cad Self Discharge Rate (Mark Hanson)
7. Re: Delivery Van (Tim Humphrey)
8. Re: EV-1 Snafu ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
9. Water cooling pump (Walter Guinon)
10. ADC motor (Walter Guinon)
11. Re: ADC motor (damon henry)
12. Volt revisited (gottdi)
13. Volt revisited (gottdi)
14. Re: Yaris EV conversion video on YouTube (Ralph Merwin)
15. ICED again - for my anniversary? (Seth Rothenberg)
16. Re: Volt revisited (David Hrivnak)
17. Re: Delivery Van (Roland Wiench)
18. Re: Volt revisited ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
19. EV Innovation (was Volt on Youtube -- photos under the hood)
(David Roden)
20. Re: Volt revisited (Zeke Yewdall)
21. Re: Volt revisited ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
22. Re: EV Innovation (was Volt on Youtube -- photos under the
hood) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
23. Re: Volt revisited (Kaido Kert)
24. Re: Water cooling pump (Mark Eidson)
25. Re: Production S-10 battery replacement options (Ricky Suiter)
26. Re: Water cooling pump (Zeke Yewdall)
27. Re: Water cooling pump (Roland Wiench)
28. Re: EV Innovation (was Volt on Youtube -- photos under the
hood) (Zeke Yewdall)
29. Re: Delivery Van (Lee Hart)
30. Re: ADC motor (Roderick Wilde)
31. Re: Water cooling pump (Mark Eidson)
32. Re: Volt revisited (storm connors)
33. Re: EV Innovation (was Volt on Youtube -- photos under the
hood) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
34. Re: Volt revisited ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
35. Re: Apologies to Mary Poppins, was: Trolls (Aliza)
36. Fw: Quiet Vacuum Pump: CL-60 (Frank John)
37. Re: Volt revisited (Zeke Yewdall)
38. Re: EV Innovation (was Volt on Youtube -- photos under the
hood) (David Dymaxion)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:09:15 -0500
From: "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] McGill University Electric Snowmobile Team website
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
eCycle,
CMG series (electronic commutator built-in, then controlled by standard
motor controller such as Alltrax)
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] McGill University Electric Snowmobile Team website
> Wow, what a neat looking 3-phase pancake motor! Wonder where that came
> from?
>
> -Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:49:07 -0600
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Delivery Van
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Lee;
Can you share a little more detail on this.
I'm curious why the 2000A Zilla for something that will be low speed
with flooded batteries.
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:37 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Delivery Van
Richard Sklarsky wrote:
> Hello EVers,
>
> Long time monitor, first time writer. I have a couple of buisnesses
> and would like to use electric for local deliveries and installations.
> A cargo size van would be ideal. Is this a practical idea? Any
> suggestiions for someone who does not have the time to work on the
> conversions themselves in the LA area?
Can't help you in the LA area. But we are converting a GM cargo van to
electric for use in a college area for vending machine deliveries. It's
all low speed on-campus work, with short runs to the warehouse for more
supplies -- perfect for an EV.
We are using a Zilla 2000amp controller, TransWarP 11" motor, with no
transmission, and a big pack of plain old flooded golf cart batteries.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:05:02 -0800
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Night Vision.
INteresting concept, and I work at a place that makes and sells IR
security cameras. Last week they annouced that the parking lot lights
were off at nigt because they were testing IR setups, apparently there
is a big IR flood light out there someplace. I think the issue is that
it is an all or nothing prospect, if even one car approached you with
the regular old headlights, the Nigh-vision would be blinded.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:08:23 -0800
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is this a vaible motor?
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I asked the seller and got back the specs. he said 12 x 12 and 24" long
at about 400lb, and yes the shaft is 2-5/8"
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:02:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Will Schmit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
If you are interested in finding that security camera's light source:
You might take a look at this article from MAKE Magazine.
(what a great publication)
http://makezine.com/12/infrared/
There ia a link that explains the Sony DSC-F707 Cyber-shot camera, and gives
some real-world modification ideas.
BTW -- most security cameras work with a ring of IR LEDs around the lens.
Will
----- Original Message ----
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 6:05:02 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
Night Vision.
INteresting concept, and I work at a place that makes and sells IR
security cameras. Last week they annouced that the parking lot lights
were off at nigt because they were testing IR setups, apparently there
is a big IR flood light out there someplace. I think the issue is that
it is an all or nothing prospect, if even one car approached you with
the regular old headlights, the Nigh-vision would be blinded.
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:13:05 -0500
From: Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Ni-Cad Self Discharge Rate
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,
I have to leave my EV at the airport for a week Dec 1-8 for EVS-23 and noticed
that STM5-180's are listed as a 1% self discharge per day. Actually I measured
over 6 days when I went to NASA (have lunar rover schematics) for Thanksgiving
and it took 3 kWh to perk up again after being fully charged for 16 batteries
in my E-Porsche 3/.4kwh per mile = 7.5 mile loss. Since the airport is 16
miles away with a 35 mile range at 60 mph I may not make it home unless I take
the backroads and maintain steady 40mph. (Can't get all that EV stuff on my
motorcycle).
Have a EVS-23 day,
Mark
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 7:13:10 -0700
From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Delivery Van
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Even though you asked Lee directly, I'd like to give this one a guess....
1. Cargo van = heavy load
2. no transmission + heavy load = high current demands upon accelleration
3. Trans Warp 11 = high current at load speed
4. BIG flooded GC battery pack = high volts (maybe) at moderate current > buck
the volts down and the amps up.
Conclusion.. the Zilla Z2K is the ONLY controller capable of providing 2000
amps to the motor.
Plus the Z2k is the cheapest and most robust controller available for these
power levels.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
G.E. I-5, Blossvale NY
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:49:07 -0600, "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Lee;
>
> Can you share a little more detail on this.
> I'm curious why the 2000A Zilla for something that will be low speed
> with flooded batteries.
>
> Dennis
> Elsberry, MO
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:37 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Delivery Van
>
> Richard Sklarsky wrote:
>> Hello EVers,
>>
>> Long time monitor, first time writer. I have a couple of buisnesses
>> and would like to use electric for local deliveries and installations.
>
>> A cargo size van would be ideal. Is this a practical idea? Any
>> suggestiions for someone who does not have the time to work on the
>> conversions themselves in the LA area?
>
> Can't help you in the LA area. But we are converting a GM cargo van to
> electric for use in a college area for vending machine deliveries. It's
> all low speed on-campus work, with short runs to the warehouse for more
> supplies -- perfect for an EV.
>
> We are using a Zilla 2000amp controller, TransWarP 11" motor, with no
> transmission, and a big pack of plain old flooded golf cart batteries.
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:14:15 GMT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV-1 Snafu
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I think the public reaction, and the vote on the Volt web-site (over 400,000,
last I checked) forced GM to actually build the Volt. In spite of their
original intentions, I think they were shocked, having mis-judged the public,
and
decided they HAD to build it. Then, if they go bankrupt they can blame it on
electric cars (and the union?).
My car is 26 years old, and the only upgrades are a DC/DC, and controller.
Think what could have been with continuous development.
John in Sylmar, CA
Driving 36 miles daily on sunshine, supporting the
Sunrise.
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:34:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Walter Guinon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Water cooling pump
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I need a 12V pump to circulate cooling water to my home brew motor
controller. What is the best way to go with regard to noise level and
reliability?
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Water-cooling-pump-tf4882081s25542.html#a13971785
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Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:40:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Walter Guinon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] ADC motor
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I have installed a 9" ADC motor in a 2000 Ford Focus. I plan to pan off the
underneath to keep off the splash and close off the grill. Then I will pipe
fresh air to the motor with some of the residual air hose from the ICE. My
question: which end of the ADC does the air enter the motor, the fan end or
the brush end?
--
View this message in context:
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Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:53:34 +0000
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ADC motor
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The air comes in through the brush end.
damon
> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:40:38 -0800
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Subject: [EVDL] ADC motor
>
>
> I have installed a 9" ADC motor in a 2000 Ford Focus. I plan to pan off the
> underneath to keep off the splash and close off the grill. Then I will pipe
> fresh air to the motor with some of the residual air hose from the ICE. My
> question: which end of the ADC does the air enter the motor, the fan end or
> the brush end?
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/ADC-motor-tf4882090s25542.html#a13971813
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:56:53 -0800 (PST)
From: gottdi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Volt revisited
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I am not impressed with the Volt. At first I was but after reading all the
chatter and seeing and reading reports I am not impressed. Here is a clip
from one:
The Volt concept promises all-electric gas-free driving for 40-mile
stretches, and extended driving range up to 600 miles
Well I hate to say but my TDI does this good. The EV-1 did 150 miles per
charge. What is up with this 40 mile per charge garbage? Does this thing
weigh as much as a hummer or what?
I am currently reading about the nLTO Lithium Battery Technology. Sounds
good but expensive from what I have read so far.
: )
Pete
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Volt-revisited-tf4882219s25542.html#a13972256
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Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:58:19 -0800 (PST)
From: gottdi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Volt revisited
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I am not impressed with the Volt. At first I was but after reading all the
chatter and seeing and reading reports I am not impressed. Here is a clip
from one:
The Volt concept promises all-electric gas-free driving for 40-mile
stretches, and extended driving range up to 600 miles
Well I hate to say but my TDI does this good. The EV-1 did 150 miles per
charge. What is up with this 40 mile per charge garbage? Does this thing
weigh as much as a hummer or what?
I am currently reading about the nLTO Lithium Battery Technology. Sounds
good but expensive from what I have read so far.
: )
Pete
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Volt-revisited-tf4882219s25542.html#a13972256
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:07:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Yaris EV conversion video on YouTube
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Cor van de Water writes:
>
> Good that your video showed the Yaris on the road and
> on the freeway, that will kill the perception that EVs
> are slow or underpowered.
> When I demonstrated my S10 EV to some visitors, it was
> also the freeway experience that convinced them that
> an EV is a feasible vehicle for daily commute.
At one of the Oregon Electric Vehicle Assoc. meetings, a guy
was interested in going for a ride in an EV. I took him out
afterwards for a short loop on the I5 freeway out of Portland
(which goes up a significant hill).
As we were cruising uphill on the freeway at 70mph, his only
comment was:
"Oh"
Ralph
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:12:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] ICED again - for my anniversary?
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
BS"D
Sunday was my 6th anniversary. On my wedding day,
my wise friend insisted on borrowing a car and driving
me so that I wouldn't risk missing the wedding.
My car died the next day.
Today, my mechanic said it's time for a new engine.
So....first, I'll pray that Jerry finishes up soon.
I think it won't be soon enough - (I borrowed a car
just for today :-) - also I am not #1 in line.
Other options? Is there an EV that I could buy today
that does 80 miles a day? (My colleague bought a
Prius last year, and I have not ruled that out, but
I would need to see if I can get one of those Zero % deals :-)
and of course, I would be counting the days till
I could actually plug it in.
(There's actually a RAV4EV that lives in NYC area,
but I don't think it's for sale :-)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==--=-==--=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-
Part 2
We have come full circle. I started because I had
a Mazda that was leaking oil and I thought I could EV it.
Then I learned that a Mazda is a bit heavy, and it was
an automatice, etc etc.
So, I have this 1996 Camry.
It's FWD, automatic, curb weight 2932.
I'm still looking up GVWR, but I think
it is a problem.
Has anyone done a conversion like this?
(I would not be looking to make it go 80 miles)
I have a nice big motor that should be able to move it.
Thanks for your suggestions. Is there anyone close
to northern NJ who wants to help me whitewash this fence ? :-)
Seth
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:44:41 -0500
From: David Hrivnak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt revisited
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I am sorry but for me this is a VAST improvement over the EV1. I need a car
that can go 600 plus miles a day. Electric around town is great but if I can
not do a highway drive that is a show stopper. Flying is just not a practical
option for a family trip.
-----Original Message-----
From: gottdi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:58 AM
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Subject: [EVDL] Volt revisited
I am not impressed with the Volt. At first I was but after reading all the
chatter and seeing and reading reports I am not impressed. Here is a clip
from one:
The Volt concept promises all-electric gas-free driving for 40-mile
stretches, and extended driving range up to 600 miles
Well I hate to say but my TDI does this good. The EV-1 did 150 miles per
charge. What is up with this 40 mile per charge garbage? Does this thing
weigh as much as a hummer or what?
I am currently reading about the nLTO Lithium Battery Technology. Sounds
good but expensive from what I have read so far.
: )
Pete
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Volt-revisited-tf4882219s25542.html#a13972256
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:48:35 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Delivery Van
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Richard,
Here is some data from my EV that can haul 3000 lbs of cargo which I had
loaded up at one time when I was building my house. That glaze tile is
heavy which made the EV about 9000 lbs at the time.
I had to keep my EV in 1st gear which is about 20:1 overall gear ratio to
the driving wheels. Transmission gear ratio times the differential gear
ratio gives you the overall ratio.
At city driving of 25 mph at 20:1 overall ratio, my motor rpm is about 6000
rpm at a motor ampere of 300 amps. Did not keep it at 300 amps too long,
because the Warp motors have only a continuous ampere rating of 200 amps and
can run over that for a short period of time.
I am using a 1000 amp Zilla and a Warp 9 which I have never went over over
500 motor amps during acceleration. Only got up to 500 amps for about a
second and then let the motor float back down to 200 amps.
During constant driving on a level surface at 25 mph at 6000 rpm in a
overall gear ratio of 20:1 the following results:
Motor ampere Battery ampere EV weight
300 100 9000
260 85 8000
210 65 7000
180 60 6000
150 50 5000
Your acceleration up to 25 mph will be about double the ampere, so you can
determine what size motor and controller you need.
If you do not use a transmission, the differential gear ratio will have to
be increase to keep your ampere to a safe level.
Some differential ratios can only be increase to about 6:1 ratio, so lets
say your van weighs 5000 lbs and if everything is proportional, so if the
motor ampere would be about at a 6:1 ratio:
150 amp at 6000 rpm at a 20:1 overall gear ratio, then
(20 x 150)/6 = 500 amps.
Pulling about 500 amps may be done only for about 30 seconds at a time at
this gear ratio, which also depends on the ambient temperature and the cool
down time of the motor.
Roland
> > Richard Sklarsky wrote:
> >> Hello EVers,
> >>
> >> Long time monitor, first time writer. I have a couple of buisnesses
> >> and would like to use electric for local deliveries and installations.
> >
> >> A cargo size van would be ideal. Is this a practical idea? Any
> >> suggestiions for someone who does not have the time to work on the
> >> conversions themselves in the LA area?
> >
> > Can't help you in the LA area. But we are converting a GM cargo van to
> > electric for use in a college area for vending machine deliveries. It's
> > all low speed on-campus work, with short runs to the warehouse for more
> > supplies -- perfect for an EV.
> >
>
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:58:31 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt revisited
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
format=flowed
Then what you need is the Prius, Camry Hybrid, Honda Hybrid, or just
pick up a nice VW TDI and run bio in it. That will net you the
mileage and fuel economy you seek. Hands down. Can't argue with that.
At least with the TDI and B100 you are using carbon neutral fuel. Oh
yea! the TDI is not a slug either.
: )
On Nov 27, 2007, at 7:44 AM, David Hrivnak wrote:
> I need a car that can go 600 plus miles a day.
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:53:05 -0500
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] EV Innovation (was Volt on Youtube -- photos under the
hood)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On 27 Nov 2007 at 1:07, Robert MacDowell wrote:
> They didn't just sleepwalk through the 1990s
> EV revolution, they *defined* it and out-innovated everyone else by a factor
> of 10.
Sorry, I must disagree. The EV1 was a very good EV, but not a great one.
Certainly it inspired an intense emotional reaction in those who used it,
but that's a complex matter. The EV1 has been promoted to legendary status
largely by its martyrdom* - not to mention a book and a well-produced
documentary film. However, in the 40+ year sweep of modern EV history, I'm
not at all sure it deserves all the accolades it gets.
The Solectria Sunrise got better range and could carry a family of 5, for
example. Where's the documentary about that EV and its freeway-speed trip
from Boston to New York, with charge left over?
I'll bet Lee Hart and some other longtime observers of EV development can
think of at least a few other purpose-built EVs that were more innovative
than the EV1, at least for their times.
*The more I think about it, the less sure I am that GM was as clever about
killing the EV1 as they're said to have been. A much smarter strategy for
them would have been to allow the cars in service to decline in use by not
servicing the batteries as they failed. EV1 users surely would have been
significantly less reluctant to see the car hauled away if it were not
operating at the time.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:59:52 -0700
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt revisited
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I'd have to say the opposite -- the volt is a step backwards compared
to the EV1 -- I already have a car that can do 600 miles plus a
day..... if I put fuel in it. But, for my daily 50 or 60 mile
commute, I don't want to be having to put fuel in -- the EV1 meets
that, but it doesn't appear that the Volt does....
Z
On Nov 27, 2007 8:44 AM, David Hrivnak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am sorry but for me this is a VAST improvement over the EV1. I need a car
> that can go 600 plus miles a day. Electric around town is great but if I can
> not do a highway drive that is a show stopper. Flying is just not a
> practical option for a family trip.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gottdi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:58 AM
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Subject: [EVDL] Volt revisited
>
>
> I am not impressed with the Volt. At first I was but after reading all the
> chatter and seeing and reading reports I am not impressed. Here is a clip
> from one:
>
> The Volt concept promises all-electric gas-free driving for 40-mile
> stretches, and extended driving range up to 600 miles
>
> Well I hate to say but my TDI does this good. The EV-1 did 150 miles per
> charge. What is up with this 40 mile per charge garbage? Does this thing
> weigh as much as a hummer or what?
>
> I am currently reading about the nLTO Lithium Battery Technology. Sounds
> good but expensive from what I have read so far.
>
> : )
>
> Pete
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Volt-revisited-tf4882219s25542.html#a13972256
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:04:27 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt revisited
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
format=flowed
How can that be! It does not even exist yet. When they did the EV-1
at least they did not go around boasting about it until they had it
ready to market and it was a success. A little gen in the trunk and
you now have a hybrid. How cool would that have been. They should
have kept the EV-1 Line and improved upon it over the years. They did
drop the ball and now they are paying but worst of all they are
strutting around like cocky roosters in a hen house boasting about
something that does not even exist. Nice words but we have heard them
before. At least the developers of the EV-1 did what they proved. Now
it's dead and some other rooster is crowing up a storm. The volt stinks.
On Nov 27, 2007, at 7:44 AM, David Hrivnak wrote:
> this is a VAST improvement over the EV1
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:16:14 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Innovation (was Volt on Youtube -- photos under
the hood)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
The EV-1 was the martyr but not the only EV made that could do better
than what they say about the Volt. Heck, I can do better with my
neighbors golf cart. 40 miles even with old technology is possible
and couple that with a nice 1 liter turbo diesel and you have a
killer hybrid. I say what would the EV be today had they not killed
it but kept improving it. This is an alternative we need. It should
be kept in the forefront and not allowed to die again. Keep working
on the hydrogen and other forms as well. It is not a matter of one
kind over the other but to help clean up the world. It will take more
than one kind of fuel to do that. One person may need that clean
hybrid but another will do just fine with all electric. Another may
need gas but I say use bio diesel electric hybrids and keep moving
forward. We can dump OPEC out of the picture now. Not later. We may
not get rid of them entirely but we sure can put a dent in
production. We the need to be the leading country to do this sort of
thing.
Oooops. I forgot, If we allow that to happen these guys will loose
all their party money and they can't have that now can they!
: )
Pete
On Nov 27, 2007, at 7:53 AM, David Roden wrote:
> On 27 Nov 2007 at 1:07, Robert MacDowell wrote:
>
>> They didn't just sleepwalk through the 1990s
>> EV revolution, they *defined* it and out-innovated everyone else
>> by a factor
>> of 10.
>
> Sorry, I must disagree. The EV1 was a very good EV, but not a
> great one.
> Certainly it inspired an intense emotional reaction in those who
> used it,
> but that's a complex matter. The EV1 has been promoted to
> legendary status
> largely by its martyrdom* - not to mention a book and a well-produced
> documentary film. However, in the 40+ year sweep of modern EV
> history, I'm
> not at all sure it deserves all the accolades it gets.
>
> The Solectria Sunrise got better range and could carry a family of
> 5, for
> example. Where's the documentary about that EV and its freeway-
> speed trip
> from Boston to New York, with charge left over?
>
> I'll bet Lee Hart and some other longtime observers of EV
> development can
> think of at least a few other purpose-built EVs that were more
> innovative
> than the EV1, at least for their times.
>
> *The more I think about it, the less sure I am that GM was as
> clever about
> killing the EV1 as they're said to have been. A much smarter
> strategy for
> them would have been to allow the cars in service to decline in use
> by not
> servicing the batteries as they failed. EV1 users surely would
> have been
> significantly less reluctant to see the car hauled away if it were not
> operating at the time.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:15:02 +0200
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt revisited
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Nov 27, 2007 6:04 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How can that be! It does not even exist yet. When they did the EV-1
> at least they did not go around boasting about it until they had it
> ready to market and it was a success. A little gen in the trunk and
> you now have a hybrid. How cool would that have been. They should
There actually was a little turbine gen in the trunk of at least one EV1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV1#EV1_series_hybrid
-kert
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:16:28 -0700
From: "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Water cooling pump
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Try the water cooling systems for PCs:
http://www.highspeedpc.com/
http://www.watercoolingshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=525
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/03/28/a-beginners-guide-for-watercooling-your-pc/
On 11/27/07, Walter Guinon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I need a 12V pump to circulate cooling water to my home brew motor
> controller. What is the best way to go with regard to noise level and
> reliability?
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Water-cooling-pump-tf4882081s25542.html#a13971785
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:16:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Production S-10 battery replacement options
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
This was posted last week:
http://panasonic.co.jp/mbi/psb/products/en/ev_lead/fv1260.html
It should be the same size as the original Panasonic
lead acid battery and is probably your best bet to try
and get a pack of these imported. That system is quite
complex and would require a heck of a lot of
modification to make it work with some other sort of
battery.
Rick
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:19:56 -0700
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Water cooling pump
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I was going to suggest the pumps for DC hydronic systems, depending on
GPM needed.
http://www.backwoodssolar.com/catalog/pumps.htm#MARCH%20HOT%20WATER%20CIRCULATING%20PUMPS
On Nov 27, 2007 9:16 AM, Mark Eidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Try the water cooling systems for PCs:
>
> http://www.highspeedpc.com/
> http://www.watercoolingshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=525
> http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/03/28/a-beginners-guide-for-watercooling-your-pc/
>
>
>
> On 11/27/07, Walter Guinon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I need a 12V pump to circulate cooling water to my home brew motor
> > controller. What is the best way to go with regard to noise level and
> > reliability?
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> > http://www.nabble.com/Water-cooling-pump-tf4882081s25542.html#a13971785
> > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> > Nabble.com.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:14:22 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Water cooling pump
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Walter,
I had use a 12 volt pump that was design for RV use which can take 180
degree F. temperature. The problem was that this pumps are diaphragm pumps
and are vary noisy. I change this pump out with a standard circulator pump
made by TaCo which is about 2 inches in diameter and 4 inches long. It is a
120 vac at .5 amp pump at 1/40 hp that is design for heating systems.
I use a 12 volt to 120 volt small inverter to run this motor for my heating
system plus a another 120 volt 1 gallon a minute Maxi-Jet 1200 pump which is
use for fish tanks that you can get from a Aquarium store for water cooling
my Zilla. It is very quiet and cannot hear it run. You can get these type
of pumps from a heating supply dealer or even some hardware stores have
these type of pumps for heating systems.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Guinon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 7:34 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Water cooling pump
>
> I need a 12V pump to circulate cooling water to my home brew motor
> controller. What is the best way to go with regard to noise level and
> reliability?
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Water-cooling-pump-tf4882081s25542.html#a13971785
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:24:16 -0700
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Innovation (was Volt on Youtube -- photos under
the hood)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Nov 27, 2007 9:16 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Heck, I can do better with my
> neighbors golf cart.
Ummm. Didn't we establish that the car at the show probably WAS a
golf cart, with a nicer body.... One would hope that they upgrade the
production version.........
------------------------------
Message: 29
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:35:10 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Delivery Van
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Tim Humphrey wrote:
> Even though you asked Lee directly, I'd like to give this one a guess...
>
> 1. Cargo van = heavy load
> 2. no transmission + heavy load = high current demands upon accelleration
> 3. Trans Warp 11 = high current at load speed
> 4. BIG flooded GC battery pack = high volts (maybe) at moderate current >
> buck the volts down and the amps up.
>
> Conclusion.. the Zilla Z2K is the ONLY controller capable of providing 2000
> amps to the motor.
> Plus the Z2k is the cheapest and most robust controller available for these
> power levels.
Yep! Got it right in one! Heavy vehicle + direct drive means high motor
current is needed for hills. The Zilla is the only way to do this. We
are going with a 5.xx:1 differential as well.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 30
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:48:32 -0800
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ADC motor
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
The air is forced out at the drive end by a fan which draws air in from the
brush end. We did a Jeep Cherokee for a guy once that wanted it all enclosed
so we built a manifold around the brushes and ducted it up towards the top
of the engine compartment. We installed a 106 cfm fan and above that custom
chrome air filter to keep out the dust. The guy lived at the end of a very
long and dusty road and was afraid of shortening brush life.
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Guinon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 6:40 AM
Subject: [EVDL] ADC motor
>
> I have installed a 9" ADC motor in a 2000 Ford Focus. I plan to pan off
> the
> underneath to keep off the splash and close off the grill. Then I will
> pipe
> fresh air to the motor with some of the residual air hose from the ICE. My
> question: which end of the ADC does the air enter the motor, the fan end
> or
> the brush end?
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/ADC-motor-tf4882090s25542.html#a13971813
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.8/1154 - Release Date:
> 11/27/2007 11:40 AM
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 31
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:35:36 -0700
From: "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Water cooling pump
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I'm using an acetone heat pipe on my electric motorcycle that requires
no circulation motor or maintenance. Basically it consists of 2
copper tubes from the heat sink to an oil cooling radiator. The
radiator is located higher than the heat sink to allow gravity to
bring the liquid down to the heat sink. There is a schrader valve
placed at the highpoint to allow a vacuum to be drawn on the system.
There is enough acetone to slightly overfill the heat sink. Acetone
boils at about 57C at one atmosphere. Drawing a partial vacuum lowers
the boiling point. Alternatively heating the system up and venting
the acetone vapor thru the schrader valve will also lower the boiling
point. The acetone vapor rises to the radiator where it condenses and
flows back to the heat sink. To generate a circular flow tie the
lowest points of the heat sink and radiator together. me
On 11/27/07, Walter Guinon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I need a 12V pump to circulate cooling water to my home brew motor
> controller. What is the best way to go with regard to noise level and
> reliability?
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Water-cooling-pump-tf4882081s25542.html#a13971785
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 32
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:55:08 -0500
From: "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt revisited
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
You are missing the point of the Volt. The current hybrids are 100%
gasoline powered. The mileage is somewhat improved primarily by
eliminating idling and some recovery of deceleration energy. Really
pointless.
Unless GM goes bankrupt first (a distinct possibility), the Volt will
be produced. This will be a true EV. The 40 mile range on batteries
was selected to satisfy a large percentage of commuting requirements.
Putting in a bigger pack costs more $ and adds weight. It doesn't
matter what the range is, it isn't enough for the typical buyer. They
had to include the range extender in order to sell them in volume.
You can argue the logic of the typical car buyer is flawed, that 100
mile range or 150 mile range or whatever is enough, but that won't
sell cars. If a significant number of buyers discover that they are
never putting fuel in their car, the next one they buy might be all
electric.
Think of it as an EV with training wheels.
Lamenting the fate of the EV1 is a waste of bandwidth. It took GM 10
years to see the light. If they had it to redo they would have
continued development of the EV1. But this is now. We should get
behind their effort. Aren't they doing what we want to see done?
On Nov 27, 2007 11:15 AM, Kaido Kert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 2007 6:04 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > How can that be! It does not even exist yet. When they did the EV-1
> > at least they did not go around boasting about it until they had it
> > ready to market and it was a success. A little gen in the trunk and
> > you now have a hybrid. How cool would that have been. They should
>
> There actually was a little turbine gen in the trunk of at least one EV1
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV1#EV1_series_hybrid
>
> -kert
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm
------------------------------
Message: 33
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:59:50 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Innovation (was Volt on Youtube -- photos under
the hood)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
format=flowed
Yes for the show car that has been shown. However they are touting
for the production car of only 40 miles and we all know that the EV-1
did better than that and that was without an onboard charging generator.
One would hope but we all know what that means.
: )
Pete
On Nov 27, 2007, at 8:24 AM, Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> Ummm. Didn't we establish that the car at the show probably WAS a
> golf cart, with a nicer body.... One would hope that they upgrade the
> production version.........
------------------------------
Message: 34
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:00:48 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt revisited
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
But not used for getting that 120 mile range. Emergency charging only.
Pete
On Nov 27, 2007, at 8:15 AM, Kaido Kert wrote:
> On Nov 27, 2007 6:04 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> How can that be! It does not even exist yet. When they did the EV-1
>> at least they did not go around boasting about it until they had it
>> ready to market and it was a success. A little gen in the trunk and
>> you now have a hybrid. How cool would that have been. They should
>
> There actually was a little turbine gen in the trunk of at least
> one EV1
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EV1#EV1_series_hybrid
>
> -kert
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 35
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:57:21 -0800
From: "Aliza" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Apologies to Mary Poppins, was: Trolls
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
LOL
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 8:36 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Apologies to Mary Poppins, was: Trolls
> <<< Please, folks, don't feed the trolls. >>>
>
> But then we couldn't all sing -
>
> "Feed the trolls,
> tuppence a bag,
> tuppence,
> tuppence,
> tuppence a bag..."
>
>
> ...no, you're right, don't waste the keystrokes...
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 36
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:01:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Fw: Quiet Vacuum Pump: CL-60
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
To those considering installing this device I readily recommend it. I just put
one (along with the diode) on my Gast vacuum pump and it transformed from an
obnoxious jackhammer sound to something quite soft, slow and not unpleasant.
Thanks guys!
Info on source from Mark:
"From: Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
GE took over Keystone & changed the part numbers now "GE Thermometrics"
like Ecomagineering stuff. Anyway the CL-60 is now a KC006L-ND from
Digi-Key, 10 ohms cold, .18 ohms hot 5 amps continuous. Also don't
forget to put a diode across the coil too. I used a CL-60 on my vacuum
pump on my E-Jeep and it ran much qieter. The Digi-Key page shows a
variety of these NTC devices mainly used for inrush on switching supplies
and electronic loads with large caps on the front end.
Have a renewable energy day,
Mark"
...and info on where and how to do the diode installation (from Lee):
"The motor's coil (i.e. across the motor). Cathode (banded end) to
positive, anode (arrow) to negative. The diode prevents the switch that
turns the motor off from being hit with huge voltage spikes when it turns
off."
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Message: 37
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:05:26 -0700
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Volt revisited
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Nov 27, 2007 9:55 AM, storm connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lamenting the fate of the EV1 is a waste of bandwidth. It took GM 10
> years to see the light. If they had it to redo they would have
> continued development of the EV1. But this is now. We should get
> behind their effort. Aren't they doing what we want to see done?
Maybe.... but I guess I have the same opinion of GM as some of the
list members have of Thundersky -- they've irreversibly proven that
they don't give a hoot about their customers, so I'm just cheering for
them to go bankrupt.
Z
------------------------------
Message: 38
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:19:27 -0800 (PST)
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Innovation (was Volt on Youtube -- photos under
the hood)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
How can you say the EV1 was "a very good EV, but not a great one"?
It was the world's most aerodynamic production car ever. That alone is
greatness. A prototype with some mods went 183 mph on the Salt Flats in 1994
(50 mph faster than Toyota's modified Prius did recently). You could program
the heater or cooler to come on as the car was parked. Love it or hate it, the
inductive Magnacharger was innovative. I don't see any other charger
manufacturers volunteering to plug in whilst being showered with water. It also
was the only car ever with a heat pump. The rear brakes and parking brake were
electrically actuated. Radio reception was good. Users were reporting 80+ mile
ranges with the 2nd generation Panasonic lead acid batteries, and 120+ miles
with Nimh. It used exotic metals to make the car lighter, and passed the crash
tests. About 1000 were built, and the fleet drove millions of miles.
Reliability was very good.
I rented EV1s on a couple trips and did about 500 miles of driving. It was
undefeated in every uh, well, never mind.
The EV1 was legendary in its day, not just in death. Yes it "inspired an
intense emotional reaction" -- which is a hallmark of a great and legendary
car. I have driven a natural gas Crown Vic, natural gas Civic, Prius, diesels,
Corvettes, etc. The EV1 was easily king of the hill. Ask anyone that has driven
an EV1 -- something about that car grabs you and won't let go.
I hope that Lee Hart's Sunrise efforts lead to similar greatness and emotional
response!
There is more to a car than range -- when you consider ride, handling,
acceleration, crash safety, backed by a major corporation, quietness,
innovative features, great aerodynamics -- the EV1 as a package was hard to
beat.
I'll nominate another innovative EV, particularly for its time: The GM
Electrovair.
----- Original Message ----
From: David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 8:53:05 AM
Subject: [EVDL] EV Innovation (was Volt on Youtube -- photos under the hood)
On 27 Nov 2007 at 1:07, Robert MacDowell wrote:
> They didn't just sleepwalk through the 1990s EV revolution,
> they *defined* it and out-innovated everyone else by a
> factor of 10.
Sorry, I must disagree. The EV1 was a very good EV, but not a great
one.
Certainly it inspired an intense emotional reaction in those who used
it,
but that's a complex matter. The EV1 has been promoted to legendary
status largely by its martyrdom* - not to mention a book and a well-produced
documentary film. However, in the 40+ year sweep of modern EV history,
I'm not at all sure it deserves all the accolades it gets.
The Solectria Sunrise got better range and could carry a family of 5,
for
example. Where's the documentary about that EV and its freeway-speed
trip
from Boston to New York, with charge left over?
I'll bet Lee Hart and some other longtime observers of EV development
can
think of at least a few other purpose-built EVs that were more
innovative
than the EV1, at least for their times.
*The more I think about it, the less sure I am that GM was as clever
about
killing the EV1 as they're said to have been. A much smarter strategy
for
them would have been to allow the cars in service to decline in use by
not
servicing the batteries as they failed. EV1 users surely would have
been
significantly less reluctant to see the car hauled away if it were not
operating at the time.
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End of EV Digest, Vol 4, Issue 75
*********************************
