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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Ford pickup Siemens motors (damon henry)
2. Re: ThunderSky YahooGroup (OT) (C.H.Lai)
3. Re: Flooded vs AGM range (Roger Stockton)
4. Re: lifePO4 battery pack 24v 80ah (Chuck Homic)
5. Re: ThunderSky YahooGroup (Sam Maynard)
6. Re: lifePO4 battery pack 24v 80ah (Morgan LaMoore)
7. Re: ThunderSky YahooGroup (Morgan LaMoore)
8. Re: Damaged Bandit cheap (EVDL Administrator)
9. Re: Low cost Inflatable electric car is announced as worlds
fi rst crash-proof, long range, f (MIKE WILLMON)
10. lifePO4 battery pack 24v 80ah (shred)
11. Fluke 337 (dave cover)
12. Re: Thoughts on an idea not fully parsed. (John Thornton)
13. Re: Flooded vs AGM range (Steve Peterson)
14. Re: Fluke 337 (John G. Lussmyer)
15. Re: 3 Wheeled Vehicles (david woolard)
16. Re: Damaged Bandit cheap (Evan Tuer)
17. Re: Flooded vs AGM range (Roger Stockton)
18. Re: Flooded vs AGM range (Adrian DeLeon)
19. Re: EV operational safety (Doug Weathers)
20. Re: Flooded vs AGM range (Steve Peterson)
21. Re: EV operational safety (Adrian DeLeon)
22. Video Interview with Daniel Kammerer Head of BMW Alternative
Drive Trains Communications ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
23. Re: ThunderSky YahooGroup (OT) (Jukka J?rvinen)
24. Re: White Zombie vs Maserati Video on Youtube (Bill Dube)
25. Re: Sunrise resurrection (Dan Frederiksen)
26. Re: Ford pickup Siemens motors (EVDL Administrator)
27. Re: 3 Wheeled Vehicles (Alan Brinkman)
28. Re: EV operational safety (Lee Hart)
29. Re: White Zombie vs Maserati Video on Youtube (MIKE WILLMON)
30. Re: Flooded vs AGM range (Roger Stockton)
31. Re: Zilla Patch cable and ferrite cube placement (John in Ma)
32. Re: Sunrise resurrection (Lee Hart)
33. Re: What exactly is 80% DOD? (John in Ma)
34. Re: Sunrise resurrection was:Spark-EV's Zotye A Wuzheng<g>!
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
35. Re: Flooded vs AGM range (Paul)
36. Re: Zilla Patch cable and ferrite cube placement (Roland Wiench)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:19:01 +0000
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ford pickup Siemens motors
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
They get brought up at least once every couple of months. You hit the nail on
the head. There is no controller. They are of no value to most on this list
for that very reason. If you have a way to obtain or build a proper controller
then they may be of some value to you... but so far that has been the sticking
point. You are much better off to get a contoller and motor combo from Victor
at www.metricmind.com.
damon
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:48:36 +0000
> Subject: [EVDL] Ford pickup Siemens motors
>
> Has anyone on here actually bought one of these motors on Ebay or know if
> anyone makes a controller
> that will work for them?
> Thanks
> Rick Prentiss
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:22:28 -0800
From: "C.H.Lai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ThunderSky YahooGroup (OT)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Big5
Just a thought.....
Can photocoping machines with sorter be modified to do the layer stacking?
Human finger is not very precise I guess......
Chuck Homic wrote:
> Sam Maynard wrote:
>> If International Battery has managed to acquire manufacturing rights
>> in the
>> US without paying an extortionate licensing fee, we should be able to
>> get
>> warranted batteries for about $0.50/W-hr
> Except for that whole "cost of labor" issue we have in the US... Which
> means it either has to be highly mechanized (as in huge up-front
> capital expenditure and large volume requirement) or high prices.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:35:03 -0800
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Flooded vs AGM range
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Adrian DeLeon wrote:
> I'm considering switching from T105 to AGM batteries for my
> next pack.
First question: why?
> '87 VW Cabriolet
> 3700 pounds w/passengers (!)
> 19 x Trojan T105 (114V nominal, 1178 pounds) Zilla -LV (156V)
> 18-25 mile trips (18 average, 16 minimum) in hilly terrain
> 45-55 AHr used per commute (2.5 to 3 hour recharge w/ PFC20:
> 2-2.5 hours @ 22A, tapers to <2A in last 30 minutes)
The first thing that jumps out is that if you are charging for about 30min
after your batteries hit the voltage target, then you're probably undercharging
them. Your Trojans need a minimum of 108% of the Ah removed returned to them
each time you charge. You're probably only at 100% at the end of the 2.5-3hr
charge you describe.
Your cycles are relatively shallow (40-50% of the battery capacity at about
100A average discharge rate), but you should find the pack voltage stiffer and
the cycle life better if you fully charge it.
If you check SG, you will likely find that your pack is in need of an equalise
charge as a result of having been routinely undercharged.
> I can fit 13 x Group 31 batteries for 156V at ~900 pounds.
> Battery weight goes from 32% to 26% of vehicle weight. So
> something like a Deka 9A31 would have 1.36x the voltage, just
> under half the capacity (100AHr vs 225AHr), but a better
> Peukert number.
In general, if you reduce the battery weight without changing the chemistry,
range will decrease roughly proportionately. You have increased the voltage,
which will decrease the current and result in a bit more usable capacity, but
because the DEKAs have a better Peukert exponent the increase will be smaller
than if you have gone from 114V of T105s to 156V of T105s.
> Uve's calculator shows 50-60% of my original range. Of course
> it also shows ridiculous ranges unless used with a large wind
> or 3-4% grade. Are there any EV calculators that reflect real
> world driving?
As long as you use Uve's calculator to simulate driving conditions where the
motor is not operating at extremely high or low current, it should give
reasonable predictions if you provide it with reasonable data. It is the old
garbage in, garbage out scenario, and unfortunately, often we try to use these
calculators without having good values for our vehicle weight, rolling losses,
CdA, etc.
Since you have a working vehicle, you could try to adjust the input to the
calculator until its output matches reasonably well with your real-world
observations. Then look to see if you havd to use input values radically
different from what you expected - these may offer you insight into areas of
your vehicle that may not be performing as they should.
Note that it can be very difficult to get the calculator to match your
real-wrold observations if your driving is on hilly terrain and the calculator
can only model flat terrain or only driving up an incline, etc. If possible,
you will probably have most success if you can collect some real world data for
your vehicle on reasonably flat ground to compare to the calculator's
predictions.
> Several EV Album entries suggest I should be getting a MUCH
> better range, and that I have 300-400 extra pounds lurking in
> my car somewhere :( I wonder how many of those are "real
> world" ranges vs calculated or WAG? Or maybe it's the hills.
> THE HILLS!!!
I'd certainly take any range estimates with a grain of salt, since these often
reflect what a person *expects*, and not what they've actually achieved, or
they are real, but the driving conditions aren't stated so you can't tell if it
is valid to compare their numbers to yours.
That said, if others with similar vehicles as yours are reporting significantly
different ranges, it may indicate a problem with your vehicle. Weight is
usually a minor contributor to range, though it can play a more significant
role if you have to climb a lot of hills and/or do a lot of start/stop type
driving.
My own EV has also been getting poorer range than I expected. Since you are
estimating your energy use based on how long your charger runs, I'm guessing
you don't have much of any instrumentation in the vehicle to let you actually
measure its energy use? I've got an E-Meter, and highly recommend it or a
similarly featured device as one of the first steps you should take if you have
concerns about your vehicle's energy use.
In my case, I have discovered that my transaxle is consuming over 100Wh/mi (!),
and so have purchased another to replace it with. You might want to start by
ensuring your tire pressures are good, and that your brakes aren't dragging,
and that the alignment is good, etc. These are the easy things that will
affect your rolling losses; once you know these are all good you can look at
other things, such as are the tires low rolling resistance, is the transaxle/CV
joints/wheel bearings consuming more energy than they should, is your driving
style or environment conducive to longer range, etc.
Cheers,
Roger.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:36:02 -0500
From: Chuck Homic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] lifePO4 battery pack 24v 80ah
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
shred wrote:
> Does anyone know much about these batteries?
> It says 240 amps continous 2400 amps max discharge.
>
> http://www.yesa.com.cn/product_pack.asp?lb=1&id=0
>
Electric bike and scooter folks are trying out Yesa batteries, with some
decent results. Check visforvoltage.org and sites like that. I sort of
don't believe the specs of 80Ah measured at 20hr, 5hr, 1hr, and 0.5hr
rate, but who knows? I think Yesa runs about $1.10/whr with BMS, which
is not bad. Maybe it's better in volume, but 10 of these would be more
than enough for me, which I don't know if it counts as "volume" for them. :)
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:56:02 -0800
From: "Sam Maynard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ThunderSky YahooGroup
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
My apologies for throwing out numbers with only qualitative insight. It is
my understanding that the manufacturing process for LiFePO4 is not
particularly cost intensive.
Also, I am of the position that reasonable licensing fees should be paid by
any manufacturer, but was expressing concern for underhanded monopolistic
business practices that may effectively "jack-up" the right to manufacture a
product beyond reason.
And yes, there are some processes that machines can perform better than
humans that result in improved quality.
-S
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Chuck Homic
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 11:24 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ThunderSky YahooGroup
Sam Maynard wrote:
> If International Battery has managed to acquire manufacturing rights in
the
> US without paying an extortionate licensing fee, we should be able to get
> warranted batteries for about $0.50/W-hr
Except for that whole "cost of labor" issue we have in the US... Which
means it either has to be highly mechanized (as in huge up-front capital
expenditure and large volume requirement) or high prices.
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:01:17 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] lifePO4 battery pack 24v 80ah
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Jan 18, 2008 2:36 PM, Chuck Homic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> I sort of
> don't believe the specs of 80Ah measured at 20hr, 5hr, 1hr, and 0.5hr
> rate, but who knows?
Check Ian Hooper's test results.With LiFePO4, the capacity in Ah is
the same whether it's at 0.1C or 10C.
At higher discharge rates, the energy is still lower because there's
more voltage sag, but it's more like a linear decrease instead of
exponential decrease.
-Morgan LaMoore
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:04:22 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ThunderSky YahooGroup
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Jan 18, 2008 2:56 PM, Sam Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Also, I am of the position that reasonable licensing fees should be paid by
> any manufacturer, but was expressing concern for underhanded monopolistic
> business practices that may effectively "jack-up" the right to manufacture a
> product beyond reason.
PHET says they buy their raw materials from the license holder, and
their cells only cost $0.80/Wh.
As long as PHET is telling the truth, the licensing fees can't bee too
unreasonable.
I had the same concern about monopoly/patent costs driving up the
price of legal LiFePO4. Seeing that PHET pays the fees and is still
relatively cheap is a big relief.
-Morgan LaMoore
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:14:03 -0500
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Damaged Bandit cheap
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Cute little guy. But a claimed top speed of 60mph? True? I wonder how
stable it would be at that speed. From what I've read, it's a challenge to
make a single-front trike handle well. But that could be wrong.
What intrigues me is the drive system. They claim 35hp with a Curtis >AC<
drive, 72v. Hmmmmm.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator
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EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:20:01 -0900
From: MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Low cost Inflatable electric car is announced as
worlds fi rst crash-proof, long range, f
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Think about cutting someone off in traffic and coming out of a store into the
parking and finding your entire car knifed :-(
Nice concept in theory though ;-)
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, January 18, 2008 6:32 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Low cost Inflatable electric car is announced as worlds fi
rst crash-proof, long range, f
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> ...and you thought getting a flat tire was a nuisance!
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
> longlegalistic signature is void.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:43:27 -0800 (PST)
From: shred <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] lifePO4 battery pack 24v 80ah
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Does anyone know much about these batteries?
It says 240 amps continous 2400 amps max discharge.
http://www.yesa.com.cn/product_pack.asp?lb=1&id=0
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/lifePO4-battery-pack-24v-80ah-tp14957763s25542p14957763.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:43:41 -0500
From: "dave cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Fluke 337
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Does anyone have any experience with the Fluke 337? Is it a good
option for an EV owner? Is there another meter in the $200 price range
worth considering?
Thanks
Dave Cover
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:52:06 -0600
From: John Thornton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Thoughts on an idea not fully parsed.
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Several electric bikes have top speeds of 55 to 60 MPH and yes I have
looked at their specs. Not that this has helped as much as I would like.
The issue of the wheel being designed to be supported a certain way is
not an issue at all and I have the engineering and fabricating
experience to know this firsthand.
The issue of the motors capacity is one issue I don't know enough about.
That is why I ask. I'm uncertain how to figure out the specific motor
outputs I need.
The other issue big is control of these independent motors. I'm totally
lost here and have nothing in my background to fall back on to help me here.
I also can't seem to find the information I need either online or in any
books but I suspect I need to go back to first principals here. I'd
rather not redesign the wheel if this work has been accomplished
elsewhere however.
I know I need more information on basics electric motor controls in
order to proceed.
John Thornton
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Have you actually looked at the specs for these motorcycles?
> I don't know of a hubmotor driven cycle that goes faster than 35mph, and
> that is usually with a 150lb rider.
> Compare the total weight of motor cycle and rider to your propossed total
> weight, if your vehicle is heavier, then it will go even slower.
>
> Next problem is that these motors are designed to be supported on both
> sides. If you try to support them only on one side (like a car) then the
> weight of the car will bend/break the shaft.
>
> When you add in the fact that most of these motors aren't particularly
> efficient, or cheap, you end up with an expensive idea that doesn't work
> very well.
>
>
>> I seem more enamored with the idea of hub motors than any other
>> configuration.
>> I've looked at several electric motorcycles and was wondering about
>> using those motors for a small car.
>> The idea would be to use either 2 or 4 of the hub motors used on one of
>> these bikes to the wheels.
>> Something along the lines of a Geo Metro or Ford Festiva. Either car
>> should be able to be fully realized at less than 1700 lbs I believe.
>> This seems like a great idea for an in-town car that isn't expected to
>> go over 55-60 MPH or need more than a 60-70 miles range.
>> I still haven't figured out the specifics of what I need to build this
>> but I am curious about others opinions before I delve into this fully.
>> The unsprung weight issue is of absolutely no importance in a vehicle
>> like this but the weight reduction and friction reduction gained by
>> losing the transmission seems like it should offer substantial benefits.
>> Is there some obvious snag that keeps this from being the good idea it
>> seems to be to me?
>> If someone else has done this can they give me some specifics on their
>> vehicle?
>>
>> John Thornton
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:59:05 -0800
From: Steve Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Flooded vs AGM range
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain
On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 12:35 -0800, Roger Stockton wrote:
<snip>
> My own EV has also been getting poorer range than I expected.
<snip>
> In my case, I have discovered that my transaxle is consuming over
>100Wh/mi(!), and so have purchased another to replace it with.
OK, I'll bite: how were you able to determine this?
--Steve
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:04:36 -0800
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Fluke 337
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
dave cover wrote:
> Does anyone have any experience with the Fluke 337? Is it a good
> option for an EV owner? Is there another meter in the $200 price range
> worth considering?
>
Used Fluke 87's are < $200 on Ebay.
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:05:46 +0000 (GMT)
From: david woolard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 3 Wheeled Vehicles
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
<snip> I personally have never had a problem running
at any of the tracks I raced at with either my in line
3 wheeler <snip>
Shawn Lawless
NEDRA President
Shawn, The NEDRA info isn't relevant to me but I did a
double take when I saw you mention that you had an
in-line 3 wheeler... Could you give a bit more info on
this, and a pointer to any pics if possible ;-) This
layout (two front, one rear) is something that's
interesting me quite a lot at the moment.
Cheers
DaveW
__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:21:13 +0000
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Damaged Bandit cheap
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Jan 18, 2008 8:14 PM, EVDL Administrator <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Cute little guy. But a claimed top speed of 60mph? True? I wonder how
> stable it would be at that speed. From what I've read, it's a challenge to
> make a single-front trike handle well. But that could be wrong.
A Robin certainly works fine at 70.
This thing isn't a Robin though. In fact, it looks suspiciously like
a Xebra, doesn't it?
"The "BANDIT" (pictured below) is a 3-wheel car that will go 70MPH and
120 miles on a battery charge. 35HP AC Motor, all USA Parts."
What?! Apart from the "3-wheel car" bit, I'd be highly skeptical of
everything in that sentence. Prove me wrong, please :)
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:37:09 -0800
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Flooded vs AGM range
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Steve Peterson wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 12:35 -0800, Roger Stockton wrote:
> <snip>
> > My own EV has also been getting poorer range than I expected.
> <snip>
> > In my case, I have discovered that my transaxle is consuming over
> >100Wh/mi(!), and so have purchased another to replace it with.
>
> OK, I'll bite: how were you able to determine this?
My E-Meter lets me easily measure battery voltage and current, and so the power
consumed from the battery.
What I did was to put the car on stands and spin the wheels at a set speed (I
used 40kph/25mph) in each gear, and recorded the battery current and voltage in
each gear while holding the speed constant. Ideally, I would have instead, or
additionally, held the motor speed (RPM) constant in each gear and recorded
those voltages and currents, but I haven't got a working tach at the moment.
What I saw were numbers like 30A @ 120V, which is 3600W. If I kept this up for
1hr, I would have consumed 3600Wh and travelled 40km/25mi (if the vehicle were
moving instead of just spinning its wheels in the air ;^). 3600Wh/25mi =
144Wh/mi consumed by my drivetrain without doing anything useful!
The next step was to figure out where this energy was going, so I spun the
wheels in the air for 10-15min at 40kph to allow things to warm up, then used
an IR thermometer to check each rotor (brake drag, wheel bearings), each CV
joint, and the tranny/diff areas of the transaxle. Initially I had some brake
drag (easily isolated by repeating the test after prying the pads away from the
rotors and comparing the before/after energy use), so I replaced the calipers.
This improved things, but not nearly enough.
Once I'd identified the transaxle as the bit that seemed to be showing the most
heating, I tried replacing the fluid in it with semi-synthetic, which helped a
bit, but again not nearly enough.
Finally, a friend with a conversion of a car using the "same" transaxle
measured his energy use under similar conditions (i.e. spinning the wheels on
stands) and came up with numbers that were a fraction of mine! This was
enough evidence for me, so I bought another transaxle to replace mine with.
Cheers,
Roger.
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:40:18 -0800
From: "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Flooded vs AGM range
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes;
charset=iso-8859-15
OK, enough thread hijacking...
Any ideas why my Cabriolet will run 20 miles at 55MPH while another will
run 40 miles at 65MPH? The 400 of the 700 pound difference is mostly in
battery weight!
I've got Sumitomo HTR-200 LRR tires, lightweigt synthetic tranny fluid,
and almost no parasitic 12V loads (in the daytime). The brakes/bearings
are scheduled for a major overhaul this summer - my car doesn't quite
coast as well as my wife's 2005 Accord.
Currently I drop 10-20V on a 200A draw. Does that seem excessive? 0.1 Ohm
resistance...
I just ordered a Kill-a-watt to better measure how many amps are being
returned to the pack.
-Adrian
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:09:57 -0700
From: Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV operational safety
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Paul compton wrote:
> One of the neatest solutions I've seen was on the Skoda Elmo pickup, where
> the charger cable stowed in a compartment behind the front grill. In order
> for the vehicle to run the cable had to be plugged into a receptacle in the
> compartment.
>
Nifty!
How did the vehicle detect the presence of the cable in the receptacle?
Microswitch, or something higher-tech? Use the ground pin in the
extension cable to complete a circuit?
I think I'll start a new thread about a "PFC helper box" that might
include this functionality.
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:40:28 -0800
From: Steve Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Flooded vs AGM range
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain
Thanks; I guessed the part about "up on stands" but the IR thermometer
didn't occur to me...
--Steve
On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 14:37 -0800, Roger Stockton wrote:
> Steve Peterson wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 12:35 -0800, Roger Stockton wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > My own EV has also been getting poorer range than I expected.
> > <snip>
> > > In my case, I have discovered that my transaxle is consuming over
> > >100Wh/mi(!), and so have purchased another to replace it with.
> >
> > OK, I'll bite: how were you able to determine this?
>
> My E-Meter lets me easily measure battery voltage and current, and so the
> power consumed from the battery.
>
> What I did was to put the car on stands and spin the wheels at a set speed (I
> used 40kph/25mph) in each gear, and recorded the battery current and voltage
> in each gear while holding the speed constant. Ideally, I would have
> instead, or additionally, held the motor speed (RPM) constant in each gear
> and recorded those voltages and currents, but I haven't got a working tach at
> the moment.
>
> What I saw were numbers like 30A @ 120V, which is 3600W. If I kept this up
> for 1hr, I would have consumed 3600Wh and travelled 40km/25mi (if the vehicle
> were moving instead of just spinning its wheels in the air ;^). 3600Wh/25mi
> = 144Wh/mi consumed by my drivetrain without doing anything useful!
>
> The next step was to figure out where this energy was going, so I spun the
> wheels in the air for 10-15min at 40kph to allow things to warm up, then used
> an IR thermometer to check each rotor (brake drag, wheel bearings), each CV
> joint, and the tranny/diff areas of the transaxle. Initially I had some
> brake drag (easily isolated by repeating the test after prying the pads away
> from the rotors and comparing the before/after energy use), so I replaced the
> calipers. This improved things, but not nearly enough.
>
> Once I'd identified the transaxle as the bit that seemed to be showing the
> most heating, I tried replacing the fluid in it with semi-synthetic, which
> helped a bit, but again not nearly enough.
>
> Finally, a friend with a conversion of a car using the "same" transaxle
> measured his energy use under similar conditions (i.e. spinning the wheels on
> stands) and came up with numbers that were a fraction of mine! This was
> enough evidence for me, so I bought another transaxle to replace mine with.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:48:34 -0800
From: "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV operational safety
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes;
charset=iso-8859-15
> A Looong while back on the List, I think was brought up a crash shutdown
> box sort of thing that would kill the fuel pumps on gas
> cars in the case of severe impact?
Sure - it's an inertia switch. KTA, EV Parts, CanEV, and Ebay have them.
Most are a NC switch that opens when bumped too hard. They also have a
reset button to get you going again. Many sizes and styles available.
Mount it to something solid, like a suspension tower, rigid part of the
firewall, etc. Tap the area next to it with a 5lb. hammer to see if it
trips - you don't want it to.
In a crash it'll bet knocked around hard enough to trip. Mine interrupts
power to the contactor coil. ICE cars usually route fuel pump power
through them. Don't want gas spraying all over the place in an accident.
-Adrian
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:58:35 +0000
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] Video Interview with Daniel Kammerer Head of BMW
Alternative Drive Trains Communications
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I've added a new page of info and interview on BMW's Hydrogen 7 and
dual mode X6 Hybrid Concept unveiled this week at the Detroit Auto Show.
Daniel Kammerer is BMW's head of alternative drive train communications.
http://evtransportal.com/bmwhybrids.html
I'm getting better at this. This one only took 9 hours
to edit, compose, and produce.
My goal here is to put together vehicle specific EV and HEV
information the average person can understand.
My concern is that the "general public" is going to get so confused by all of
the
variations and "loose" use of terms like "hybrid" ie- Chevy Malibu "mild hybrid"
that they will avoid these options all together, or think they are comparing
apples when
in fact they have an orange.
Peter Oppewall
EVtransPortal
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 00:54:25 +0200
From: Jukka J?rvinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ThunderSky YahooGroup (OT)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
There are MUCH better machines to do that. TS actually makes all cells
by hand. One cell has 20 fingerprints or so on it. They are trying to
get more automated process and it's a good thing.
IB has knowledge of TS tech and how to make it better. After that it
will not be a "TS" cell anymore. I heard that they will start
production already around June in USA.
But basicly you make most Lithium cells in simlar way. Coating the
electrode plates with electrode paste. Cut and stack the plates with
separators and squeeze it to the form you wish. Or you can just roll the
plate pair around each other. Nothing magical here.
How the pastes are mixed and applied, used materials and electrolyte
mixtures. That's the magic.
but.. I think it would be quite possible to make such a "battery
printer". I've thought that too some time ago.
I already saw in my dreams how EV hobbyists open the brown cartboard
boxes, lift the stuff out, set it up (It's getting late evening already,
dimm light in the study, guy working on a set of devices...) After some
time of assembling first sheets come out.. Next evening other EV friends
gather around (with the proud owner of something new and neat.. toys,
toys ) the gadgets and start putting some serious Lithium on stacks of
cells... And a completely new brand of Lithium invasion on EV field starts..
-Jukka
C.H.Lai kirjoitti:
> Just a thought.....
> Can photocoping machines with sorter be modified to do the layer stacking?
> Human finger is not very precise I guess......
>
> Chuck Homic wrote:
>> Sam Maynard wrote:
>>> If International Battery has managed to acquire manufacturing rights
>>> in the
>>> US without paying an extortionate licensing fee, we should be able to
>>> get
>>> warranted batteries for about $0.50/W-hr
>> Except for that whole "cost of labor" issue we have in the US... Which
>> means it either has to be highly mechanized (as in huge up-front
>> capital expenditure and large volume requirement) or high prices.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:24:08 -0700
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] White Zombie vs Maserati Video on Youtube
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Great video. Well done!
>. It was fun putting the two video segments together.
I especially liked it when you put the two cute "segments"
together at the very end. :-)
Bill Dube'
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:42:34 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise resurrection
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Lee Hart wrote:
> Yes; I think I've been pretty good about answering people's questions.
> We're not being secretive --
just not sharing any information what so ever. not at all the same :)
I'm not trying to pressure you, but putting up a zipfile online with 15
photos in it of various molds and mock ups and other stuff you've done
won't entail customer or investor ties. obviously.
I understand if you don't like public attention but it is what it is
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:25:13 -0500
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ford pickup Siemens motors
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On 18 Jan 2008 at 19:48, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Has anyone on here actually bought one of these motors on Ebay or know if
> anyone makes a controller that will work for them?
This has been discussed MANY, MANY times on this list. Please check the
archive. (I would gently remind you that the list welcome message requests
that you check the archives before posting a question.)
http://www.evdl.org/archive/
Hope I'm not being too snippy. This really is a well-worn issue.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:15:08 -0800
From: "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 3 Wheeled Vehicles
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
David,
Scroll down to the bottom of this page:
http://www.nedra.com/100mph_club.html#agnus
Shawn has a 100 mile per hour plus motorcycle with three wheels in line.
It has two small rear wheels in line, and two motors. Is it for
breaking drag racing records or testing the "fearless" nature of a
driver? It does hold a NEDRA record........
A web search for Shawn Lawless shows the many electric vehicles that he
has built.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of david woolard
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 2:06 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 3 Wheeled Vehicles
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
<snip> I personally have never had a problem running
at any of the tracks I raced at with either my in line
3 wheeler <snip>
Shawn Lawless
NEDRA President
Shawn, The NEDRA info isn't relevant to me but I did a
double take when I saw you mention that you had an
in-line 3 wheeler... Could you give a bit more info on
this, and a pointer to any pics if possible ;-) This
layout (two front, one rear) is something that's
interesting me quite a lot at the moment.
Cheers
DaveW
__________________________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
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------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:09:55 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV operational safety
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Paul compton wrote:
>> Skoda Elmo pickup... charger cable stowed in a compartment behind the
>> front grill. In order for the vehicle to run, the cable had to be
>> plugged into a receptacle in the compartment.
Doug Weathers wrote:
> Nifty! How did the vehicle detect the presence of the cable in the
> receptacle?
Not sure how the Skoda did it; but my ComutaVan had a similar setup. The
charger cable had 4 pins; pack+, pack-, +12v, and ground. When you
plugged in the charger, it supplied +12v to recharge the accessory
battery (there was no DC/DC converter). This 12v also pulled in a relay,
which connected the pack + and - to the connector. The charger sensed
the pack voltage coming back on those pins, and enabled charging.
When done charging, you a) unplugged the charger, and b) plugged a
second connector into the charging connector. This one had a wire to the
+12v pin to power the contactors.
Since you can't have both the "driving" and the "charging" connectors
plugged into the same receptacle at the same time, you couldn't drive
off with the charger connected, even if it had no AC power.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 29
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:16:59 -0900
From: MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] White Zombie vs Maserati Video on Youtube
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
How about Tim's sign language at the very first two seconds of the clip :-O
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, January 18, 2008 2:13 pm
Subject: Re: [EVDL] White Zombie vs Maserati Video on Youtube
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Great video. Well done!
>
> >. It was fun putting the two video segments together.
>
> I especially liked it when you put the two cute "segments"
> together at the very end. :-)
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 30
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:21:01 -0800
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Flooded vs AGM range
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Adrian DeLeon wrote:
> OK, enough thread hijacking...
Identifying where your vehicle is consuming excessive energy seems germane to
your question...
> Any ideas why my Cabriolet will run 20 miles at 55MPH while
> another will run 40 miles at 65MPH? The 400 of the 700 pound
> difference is mostly in battery weight!
Unless your highway driving involves a lot of hills or slowing and
accelerating, it is unlikely to have very much to do with the difference in
weight.
You know for a fact what your car will do, are you sure that the specs for the
other one are accurate?
Is the other car also a Cabriolet? Are you driving with the top down while the
other is driving with it up?
> I've got Sumitomo HTR-200 LRR tires, lightweigt synthetic
> tranny fluid, and almost no parasitic 12V loads (in the
> daytime). The brakes/bearings are scheduled for a major
> overhaul this summer - my car doesn't quite coast as well as
> my wife's 2005 Accord.
As I found, synthetic oil in the tranny won't compensate for something being
wrong with the tranny/diff. Can you feel around after a drive and see what
seems to be hot? If you're losing energy somewhere, then something will be
getting hot.
You can try jacking up each corner of the car and checking to see if any of the
wheels isn't spinning as freely as it should (and/or feel each wheel for heat
after a drive, though this can be inconclusive if you use the brakes a lot
during the drive). This won't reveal if you have an alignment issue, however.
> Currently I drop 10-20V on a 200A draw. Does that seem
> excessive? 0.1 Ohm resistance...
It doesn't seem horrible, but check to see if any of your cables/connections
are hot after a drive. If you are losing voltage in a cable or connection, it
will be evident as heat.
> I just ordered a Kill-a-watt to better measure how many amps
> are being returned to the pack.
A Kill-a-watt isn't a very good way to measure amps or Ah returned to the
battery. It will tell you how many kWh the charger has consumed (but only if
you turn the PFCxx down enough that it doesn't draw more than the 15A that the
Kill-a-watt can handle), but not how many kWh of this made it to the battery,
nor how many Ah were delivered to the battery.
You need to know how much you are taking from your battery in order to compare
the energy use of your vehicle with that of any one else's.
For instance, you may find that the other guy drives his EV at 65mph, but has
never actually driven it at that speed for 40mi. If he has instrumentation, he
can tell you what his battery voltage and current is while holding a steady
55mph or 65mph, and if you have instrumentation you can compare these values to
what you see your car doing. If you are using a similar amount of energy
travelling the same speed as he, then you know his range estimate is off; he
can't really go any further than you. If you are using significantly more
energy to travel the same speed, then you know you need to look further.
The difference in range you are suggesting is great enough that you can
probably get a good feel if there is something wrong with your car (or his
estimate) simply by comparing the current you draw at steady speed to what his
car draws at a similar speed. The current you would expect yours to draw is:
(your current) = (his current) * (his pack voltage)/(your pack voltage)
If the difference in range is as great as you think, then the current you
measure will be about 2x the value calculated above.
If you don't have a means of measuring current, tequipment.net had a special on
some clamp on DMMs before Christmas that might still be running. (e.g. Protek
true RMS DMM capable of 1000A AC/DC for $65-70)
An E-Meter is still a better choice as it will allow you to monitor pack
voltage, current, Ah in/out and kWh in/out. I understand it costs about $500
these days once you account for the meter, shunt, DC/DC and prescaler though.
Cheers,
Roger.
------------------------------
Message: 31
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:31:42 -0500
From: John in Ma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Patch cable and ferrite cube placement
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Thanks Roland,
But I think I want a longer cable. The archives indicate I can use a
longer Cat 5 cable so long as I also move the ferrite cube to the
new cable. What I'm unsure of is whether or not the cube has to be in
the middle of the cable like it is on the cable that was shipped from
the factory.
John
On Jan 18, 2008, at 12:46 AM, Roland Wiench wrote:
> Hello John,
>
> I just left the ferrite cube as it is. My hairball distance to the
> motor
> controller is only 1/2 inch place above the controller. So I had
> to coil
> the cable in a 2 inch coil and wire tie it to the aluminum chassis
> plate
> that the motor controller and hairball is setting on.
>
> It is also best to run a 12 volt ground wire to the hairball and motor
> controller. I connected a No 10 AWG wire to the mounting feet on
> both ends
> of the hairball and motor controller. I then connect the No 10
> wire to a
> grounding stud on the fire wall and than run a No. 6 AWG wire
> directly to
> the 12 volt negative voltage supply.
>
> Connect a ground wire as short as possible from the hairball pin 1
> to the
> closes bolt on the mounting feet. The grounding wire from the neg
> 12 volt
> source should also tie to this ground point too. It is best to not
> wire tie
> this small length of ground jumper from the bolt to Pin 1 to any other
> wires. Just lay this wire very close to the chassis. This method of
> installation is use to reduce any interference induce into this wire.
>
> The bolt holes in the feet of these units are coated, so you should
> remove
> this coating and connected the ground wire terminal with a star
> washer.
>
> I did not do this at first, and these enclosures had no continuity to
> ground, until I clean off the ground contact points.
>
> I do not relied on any units to be self grounding to the vehicle body.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John in Ma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric List Vehicle Discussion" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 8:54 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Zilla Patch cable
>
>
>> A question for the zilla experts.
>> On the cat 5 cable connecting the hairball to the zilla, does the
>> ferrite cube have to be in the middle of the cable as it came from
>> the factory?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> John
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 32
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:40:34 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise resurrection
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Lee Hart wrote:
>> Yes; I think I've been pretty good about answering people's questions.
>> We're not being secretive --
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
> just not sharing any information what so ever. not at all the same :)
Thanks for my laugh of the day, Dan! :-)
You aren't looking very hard. Anyone who reads the EV list will have
seen far more technical information and discussion about our Sunrise EV2
than has been published by just about any other EV startup.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 33
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:50:34 -0500
From: John in Ma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What exactly is 80% DOD?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
format=flowed
On Jan 18, 2008, at 12:01 PM, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> <beging Andrian DeLoran quote>1.75V/cell under load is considered
>> 100% DOD AT THAT LOAD, but the battery
>> itself may still indicate a significant %SOC, which means there's
>> still
>> energy there, but I can't use it because my EV requires too high a
>> discharge current. So for battery longevity, what is considered an
>> 80%
>> discharge? 100% discharge? <end Adrian DeLoran quote>
> For an EV 100% DoD is the point, as stated above, where the battery
> hits
> 1.75V per cell at EV current levels. I.e you might hit 100% DoD,
> but can
> still continue driving at reduced speed (generally not a good idea)
<snip>
Is this generally accepted?
The reason I as is that according to the following; attributed as
'A consolidation of notes from Kitty Rodden's presentation to the
Peninsula Chapter of the Electric Auto Association, by David Coale.'
http://www.acterra.org/ev/files/batteries_2.html
1.75 volts per cell under 75 amp load is 80% discharged (which I
understood to be 80% DOD)
John
------------------------------
Message: 34
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:46:09 GMT
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sunrise resurrection was:Spark-EV's Zotye A
Wuzheng<g>!
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
LEE,
E-mail me off list I might have some services to offer...
_____________________________________________________________
Free information on becoming a Legal Assistant. Click Now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4vdT1kQbuxIpE4BJlu6EA76ga8Lze8YAgKCnMhRzxNfd7oZJ/
------------------------------
Message: 35
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:02:45 -0800
From: Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Flooded vs AGM range
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Good detective work. I was wondering, what losses did the other Metro
transaxle show?
In previous discussion we put my aircooled VW transaxle in the 40 to
45 watt hour per mile range but only did so by working back numbers
in Uve's calculator until the numbers better matched its real world
power consumption. I don't know my real numbers so I'm quite curious
to learn what you found out. My old VW unit should be worse as it
does have a 90 degree final drive.
Thanx,
Paul Gooch
On Jan 18, 2008, at 2:37 PM, Roger Stockton wrote:
[snip]
> Finally, a friend with a conversion of a car using the "same"
> transaxle measured his energy use under similar conditions (i.e.
> spinning the wheels on stands) and came up with numbers that were a
> fraction of mine! This was enough evidence for me, so I bought
> another transaxle to replace mine with.
------------------------------
Message: 36
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:02:07 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Patch cable and ferrite cube placement
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello John,
Looking in my Handbook for Ferromagnetic Core Design, the ferrite cubes or
beads are available in a variety of permeabilities. There are different ui
values that is required for suppression of a selected frequency or band of
frequencies.
Some circuits may required only one ferrite bead or a string of beads,
depending on the shield-bead attenuation.
You could add more ferrite cubes if you knew the right value. I seen some
comm circuits that stack up a whole rolls of ferrite beads about 3 to 6
inches apart on a cable and a whole string on a circuit ground wire.
You can move the one ferrite cube to that cable and see what happens. You
could always add more split or channel ferrite cubes if have to.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "John in Ma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Patch cable and ferrite cube placement
> Thanks Roland,
>
> But I think I want a longer cable. The archives indicate I can use a
> longer Cat 5 cable so long as I also move the ferrite cube to the
> new cable. What I'm unsure of is whether or not the cube has to be in
> the middle of the cable like it is on the cable that was shipped from
> the factory.
>
> John
> On Jan 18, 2008, at 12:46 AM, Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> > Hello John,
> >
> > I just left the ferrite cube as it is. My hairball distance to the
> > motor
> > controller is only 1/2 inch place above the controller. So I had
> > to coil
> > the cable in a 2 inch coil and wire tie it to the aluminum chassis
> > plate
> > that the motor controller and hairball is setting on.
> >
> > It is also best to run a 12 volt ground wire to the hairball and motor
> > controller. I connected a No 10 AWG wire to the mounting feet on
> > both ends
> > of the hairball and motor controller. I then connect the No 10
> > wire to a
> > grounding stud on the fire wall and than run a No. 6 AWG wire
> > directly to
> > the 12 volt negative voltage supply.
> >
> > Connect a ground wire as short as possible from the hairball pin 1
> > to the
> > closes bolt on the mounting feet. The grounding wire from the neg
> > 12 volt
> > source should also tie to this ground point too. It is best to not
> > wire tie
> > this small length of ground jumper from the bolt to Pin 1 to any other
> > wires. Just lay this wire very close to the chassis. This method of
> > installation is use to reduce any interference induce into this wire.
> >
> > The bolt holes in the feet of these units are coated, so you should
> > remove
> > this coating and connected the ground wire terminal with a star
> > washer.
> >
> > I did not do this at first, and these enclosures had no continuity to
> > ground, until I clean off the ground contact points.
> >
> > I do not relied on any units to be self grounding to the vehicle body.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John in Ma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Electric List Vehicle Discussion" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 8:54 PM
> > Subject: [EVDL] Zilla Patch cable
> >
> >
> >> A question for the zilla experts.
> >> On the cat 5 cable connecting the hairball to the zilla, does the
> >> ferrite cube have to be in the middle of the cable as it came from
> >> the factory?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> John
> >>
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End of EV Digest, Vol 6, Issue 61
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