On 2009-12-08, at 11:33 PM, Alexander Limi wrote:

> Also, TCO usually means "we couldn't find any other way to justify the cost 
> of our product, and we're taking a beating in the market right now, so we 
> made up* this totally arbitrary calculation that shows our competitor as 
> being harder to use / weird to set up / too communist."
> * aka. "paid a company to make charts"
> At least that's what usually happens when Microsoft starts touting TCO 
> numbers. ;)
> -- 
> Alexander Limi ยท http://limi.net
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.] 
> <ken.wase...@contextualcorp.com> wrote:
> Virginia,
> I had mentioned this Sharepoint cost calculator link when adding to 
> Francesco's blog post comparing Plone and Sharepoint too.  Besides the cost 
> factor, it couldn't hurt you to re-read his (two-part?) blog post regarding 
> the Plone vs. Sharepoint comparison.  
> http://francescociriaci.wordpress.com/2008/12/22/plone-vs-moss-round-1/
> I had helped a for-profit university evaluate commercial CMS tools a few 
> years ago and they chose RedDot.  At the time, the price for their .Net-based 
> CMS plus their Java-based personalized portal delivery engine, plus a 'Quick 
> Start' where a small portion of the website was themed/implemented was to run 
> about $330K in US$.
> Teamsite was in that evaluation as well, and their offering is broken up into 
> many modules, so it's harder to compare, but this client would have paid a 
> bit more for what they needed from IWOV than what the RedDot (now OpenText) 
> price was, even.  Probably not a lot more, though.
> Seems like the bigger players such as Autonomy/Interwoven/Teamsite, 
> OpenText/Vignette, etc. are in the 350-500K US$ range by the time you buy 
> licenses for not only your production servers, but also development and/or 
> staging.
> Not to mention that the per-hour integrator rates I was seeing were in the 
> $175+/hr range US$, which is 30-40% more than most Plone shops will charge.
> Plus, you should build a comparison that looks at year 2, 3, etc.  With the 
> commercial tools, the client will be paying 20%/year of license cost just to 
> keep up with patches/upgrades, no on-site services, just emergency support, 
> access to the online knowledge base, forums, etc. 
> If you do a 3-year Total Cost of Ownership comparison, I can't imagine the 
> other tools, even Sharepoint, coming close to Plone on a financial basis, but 
> others would disagree.
> -Ken
> Nate Aune wrote:
> i don't know about Reddot or Teamsite, but the Sharepoint calculator can be 
> used to determine the total cost of ownership if you have to buy all the user 
> licenses and software licenses for the other dependent Microsoft products.
> http://community.bamboosolutions.com/blogs/sharepoint-price-calculator/default.aspx
> found via Cynapse blog: 
> http://www.cynapse.com/blog/cynin-low-cost-alternative-sharepoint
> Nate
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Virginia Choy <virgi...@pretaweb.com 
> <mailto:virgi...@pretaweb.com>> wrote:
>    Hi,
>    Does anyone have any documentation about total cost of ownership
>    or general cost comparisons between deploying Plone, Sharepoint,
>    Teamsite,, RedDot or any other proprietary enterprise solution?
>    Thanks Virginia
>    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>    Virginia Choy
>    Business Development Manager
>    PretaWeb - Plone Open Source Enterprise Web Solutions
>    Suite 2, Level 6, 99 York Street, Sydney 2000 NSW Australia
>    P: 612-8081-9072
>    M: 0423-198-306
>    W: www.pretaweb.com <http://www.pretaweb.com>
>    Sales & Support: 02-9955-2830
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Plone has been shown to be the least expensive web dev environment of all, save 
raw xhtml and css, at least for me, if only based on getting the job done. All 
promises look inexpensive until the rubber hits the road. Based on comparisons 
between custom apps developed jsp and plone, plone is bar none the hands down 
winner as far as speed to the gate and working features. No comparison.

I have fired all web-dev and do it using plone. It is hard to impress how 
significant this capacity is, for a designer, being able to even program a form 
without contracting a programmer. What a significant hurdle that simple 
function presents.

Plone has shown it gets the job done, vanilla. Many discussions on the 
plone-user list regarding deployment issues turn out moot or redundant. Plone 
is great software. For comparison, Codeigniter offer a Zope-like interface into 
lamphp but lacks a graphical ttw plone-like interface, which I intuitively know 
to be significant but am unable to articulate the manifold advantages this 
gives plone. But I know if offers another context in which to interface with 
and manipulate the Zope Object DataBase, a development context that Codigniter 
appears to lack. I focus on Codeigniter as LAMP seems to be taking over the web.

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