Re: [Evangelism] cost comparison

[Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.]]

Norman,

What type of shop do you run or work at, and where are you located?
It'd be great to get more user/adopter/designer/developer user stories 
out there by way of interview/ustream/youtube.  There's been a lot of 
FUD put out there by the PHP-ers of the world about how difficult Plone 
was to get ramped up with.  They leave out that PHP is the only 
scripting technology that they know and that Plone doesn't use PHP, of 
course.

Anyhow, if you can do a self-produced video/screencast of the things 
you've found that Plone makes easy that you haven't found in other 
tools, it would be so powerful in getting the word out.  This type of 
message from Plone integrators just doesn't carry as much weight.

Thanks,
Ken Wasetis
www.contextualcorp.com

Norman Fournier wrote:
On 2009-12-08, at 11:33 PM, Alexander Limi wrote:

Also, TCO usually means "we couldn't find any other way to justify 
the cost of our product, and we're taking a beating in the market 
right now, so we made up* this totally arbitrary calculation that 
shows our competitor as being harder to use / weird to set up / too 
communist."

* aka. "paid a company to make charts"

At least that's what usually happens when Microsoft starts touting 
TCO numbers. ;)

--
Alexander Limi · http://limi.net <http://limi.net/>


On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Ken Wasetis [Contextual Corp.] 
<ken.wase...@contextualcorp.com 
<mailto:ken.wase...@contextualcorp.com>> wrote:

    Virginia,

    I had mentioned this Sharepoint cost calculator link when adding
    to Francesco's blog post comparing Plone and Sharepoint too.
     Besides the cost factor, it couldn't hurt you to re-read his
    (two-part?) blog post regarding the Plone vs. Sharepoint
    comparison.
     http://francescociriaci.wordpress.com/2008/12/22/plone-vs-moss-round-1/

    I had helped a for-profit university evaluate commercial CMS
    tools a few years ago and they chose RedDot.  At the time, the
    price for their .Net-based CMS plus their Java-based personalized
    portal delivery engine, plus a 'Quick Start' where a small
    portion of the website was themed/implemented was to run about
    $330K in US$.

    Teamsite was in that evaluation as well, and their offering is
    broken up into many modules, so it's harder to compare, but this
    client would have paid a bit more for what they needed from IWOV
    than what the RedDot (now OpenText) price was, even.  Probably
    not a lot more, though.

    Seems like the bigger players such as
    Autonomy/Interwoven/Teamsite, OpenText/Vignette, etc. are in the
    350-500K US$ range by the time you buy licenses for not only your
    production servers, but also development and/or staging.

    Not to mention that the per-hour integrator rates I was seeing
    were in the $175+/hr range US$, which is 30-40% more than most
    Plone shops will charge.

    Plus, you should build a comparison that looks at year 2, 3, etc.
     With the commercial tools, the client will be paying 20%/year of
    license cost just to keep up with patches/upgrades, no on-site
    services, just emergency support, access to the online knowledge
    base, forums, etc.
    If you do a 3-year Total Cost of Ownership comparison, I can't
    imagine the other tools, even Sharepoint, coming close to Plone
    on a financial basis, but others would disagree.

    -Ken


    Nate Aune wrote:

        i don't know about Reddot or Teamsite, but the Sharepoint
        calculator can be used to determine the total cost of
        ownership if you have to buy all the user licenses and
        software licenses for the other dependent Microsoft products.
        
http://community.bamboosolutions.com/blogs/sharepoint-price-calculator/default.aspx

        found via Cynapse blog:
        http://www.cynapse.com/blog/cynin-low-cost-alternative-sharepoint

        Nate

        On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 9:05 PM, Virginia Choy
        <virgi...@pretaweb.com <mailto:virgi...@pretaweb.com>
        <mailto:virgi...@pretaweb.com
        <mailto:virgi...@pretaweb.com>>> wrote:

           Hi,

           
           Does anyone have any documentation about total cost of
        ownership
           or general cost comparisons between deploying Plone,
        Sharepoint,
           Teamsite,, RedDot or any other proprietary enterprise
        solution?

           
           Thanks Virginia
           
           ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
           Virginia Choy
           Business Development Manager
           PretaWeb - Plone Open Source Enterprise Web Solutions
           Suite 2, Level 6, 99 York Street, Sydney 2000 NSW Australia
           P: 612-8081-9072
           M: 0423-198-306
           W: www.pretaweb.com <http://www.pretaweb.com/>
        <http://www.pretaweb.com <http://www.pretaweb.com/>>

           Sales & Support: 02-9955-2830
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Plone has been shown to be the least expensive web dev environment of 
all, save raw xhtml and css, at least for me, if only based on getting 
the job done. All promises look inexpensive until the rubber hits the 
road. Based on comparisons between custom apps developed jsp and 
plone, plone is bar none the hands down winner as far as speed to the 
gate and working features. No comparison.

I have fired all web-dev and do it using plone. It is hard to impress 
how significant this capacity is, for a designer, being able to even 
program a form without contracting a programmer. What a significant 
hurdle that simple function presents.

Plone has shown it gets the job done, vanilla. Many discussions on the 
plone-user list regarding deployment issues turn out moot or 
redundant. Plone is great software. For comparison, Codeigniter offer 
a Zope-like interface into lamphp but lacks a graphical ttw plone-like 
interface, which I intuitively know to be significant but am unable to 
articulate the manifold advantages this gives plone. But I know if 
offers another context in which to interface with and manipulate the 
Zope Object DataBase, a development context that Codigniter appears to 
lack. I focus on Codeigniter as LAMP seems to be taking over the web.

Norman

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