I want to echo what Jason says entirely in his position and reasoning. Either would be fine, but libera.chat has some benefits, both technical-adjacent and non-technical, IMO.
I would also add that I pretty strongly disagree with the argument that we should distance ourselves for distance's stake, or to avoid the appearance of taking sides. This isn't analogous to a divorce where we are the children, it's a choice we're making for our project WRT infrastructure and, all else being equal, the explicitly stated values of the competing options should be weighed in that decision. I appreciate libera.chat's more explicit values statement embodied in the anti-discrimination policy and believe that aligns with the values of the Evergreen project. That said, OFTC is a fine choice as well, and they have taken the recent step of pushing the "private" flag to all users, forcing users to opt out of some identity-masking features rather than opt in, which is a good step, I think. -- Mike Rylander Research and Development Manager Equinox Open Library Initiative 1-877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457) work: [email protected] personal: [email protected] https://equinoxOLI.org On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 6:29 PM Jason Boyer <[email protected]> wrote: > > Given the last week or so I don’t think there’s any question about whether we > should move, only where we should land. > > I wouldn’t be upset either way but I lean toward libera.chat for a few > reasons: > 1. Since it is basically all the same staff as freenode they’re used to > managing a large network > 2. With the (very recent) addition of a web interface they’re basically at > feature parity with what we expect > 3. I like the fact that they have anti-discrimination policies as Galen > mentioned, and having gone through this ordeal I suspect their management > policies will be quite robust. > 4. Less importantly but still notable, several other FOSS projects have > already officially moved there, such as Ansible, PostgreSQL, emacs, ZNC, > Code4Lib, and I’m sure several others. Most of these I’ve observed > incidentally or saw mentioned elsewhere; I suspect a number of large projects > are already represented there should one actually search them out. > > Jason > > -- > Jason Boyer > Senior System Administrator > Equinox Open Library Initiative > [email protected] > +1 (877) Open-ILS (673-6457) > https://equinoxOLI.org/ > > On May 26, 2021, at 11:21 AM, Galen Charlton <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi, > > The #evergreen IRC channel has been hosted on the Freenode network for years. > However, recently 14 staff members at Freenode have quit in response to a > dispute over ownership of the network [1], [2]. > > A number of open source and other communities, including Code4Lib, have > migrated to other IRC networks such as Libera.Chat (which was founded by the > departed Freenode staff members) and OFTC (which has been around for years > and hosts, among other groups, #koha). However, Freenode has apparently > started locking channels that mentioned a move away to Libera in their > channel topics. [3] > > I believe that the current proprietors of Freenode are actively undermining > Freenode as a place for open source communities to discuss their work without > interference, though it is not clear to me why they find commercial or other > value in doing so. Consequently, I suggest that we consider a move to either > Libera.Chat or OFTC. #evergreen channels currently do exist on both networks. > > Here are some pros and cons I see: > > Libera.Chat > --------------- > Pro: Run by the same people who have kept Freenode running smoothly for over > a decade. Has a policy against discrimination based on faith, ethnicity, > sexual orientation, sex or gender expression, disability, or age. [4] > Con: Doesn't offer a built-in web client, although it can be used with other > web IRC services. > > OFTC > ------- > Pro: Has been successfully used by the Koha community for years. Comes with a > built-in web chat client. > Con: Their policy does not appear to have active anti-discrimination clauses. > [5] > > I don't believe that this is a super-urgent issue - please enjoy the > Evergreen Conference this week! - but I would like to solicit opinions on > whether to leave Freenode and, if so, whether to move to OFTC or Libera.Chat. > Discussion about the IRC network is taking place on the Freenode #evergreen > IRC channel as well. > > I want to acknowledge that a discussion of alternatives to IRC would be > valid, but I suggest that if anybody wants to take that up, that it be done > in parallel to the more limited question about moving #evergreen. > > [1] > https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/freenode-irc-has-been-taken-over-by-the-crown-prince-of-korea/ > [2] https://lwn.net/Articles/856543/ > [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27287750 > [4] https://libera.chat/policies > [5] https://www.oftc.net/Network_Policy/ > > Regards, > > Galen > -- > Galen Charlton > Implementation and IT Manager > Equinox Open Library Initiative > [email protected] > https://www.equinoxOLI.org > phone: 877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457) > direct: 770-709-5581 > _______________________________________________ > Evergreen-general mailing list > [email protected] > http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/evergreen-general > > > _______________________________________________ > Evergreen-general mailing list > [email protected] > http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/evergreen-general _______________________________________________ Evergreen-general mailing list [email protected] http://list.evergreen-ils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/evergreen-general
