Dear Christine, As always your deep and genuine concern for the client, participants and this Open Space community shines through. By sharing this in such detail you have opened such wonderful Space for us to ponder, noodle, reflect and contribute BEYOND the practical and general considerations of the translation topic. Opening up space, on and around Open Space. I so appreciated the responses. Feeling the spirit of our generous, passionate learning community. Savoring every morsel. I also felt myself at your gathering Christine as you described the bumps in the road along the way, feeling the frustrations and the figuring it out as we go. That happens in Open Space over and over again, in so many ways. And when it does, the magic of people helping each other out, being frustrated and/or more compassionate, humble or sometimes not. All kinds of emotions show up. Whatever happens is the only thing that could have. Pure Open Space.
It has been such a long time that I’ve seen 5 days OST let alone 3 being mentioned. How I treasure the commitment to the Book of Proceedings, that too often gets lost in the shuffle in these times. How wonderful it was and is when we can take time to host and be in Open Space rather than rushing through. It feels as if the spirit of wonderful conversations that will happen at Bilbao is already underway. Its essence and intent felt and captured. Dear Eleder how very much I wish I could be there. Not meant to happen this time. Suzanne Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 17, 2022, at 7:06 AM, Gentza Eleder <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Thanks so much Christine and all of you for sharing! > I thank very much you long message, full of details! > We'll review it soon in our pre-work, regarding the language management, > thanks! > > There will be a good chance to experience multilingual open space in Bilbao, > yes. > We, the inviting team, are so far happy/comfortable leaving self- > organization and mutual help rising. We don´t plan to have a translation team > to assure to have all the info in 3 languages, for example. It goes far away > from our expectations. But we know that lots of multilingual communication > and marvellous holes of non-comprehension will happen there ;-)! > > Very interesting the ideas you all wrote, some of them om humbleness, some > about slow, conscious communication, many about serf organization an > collaboration. > > We know there will be much English speaking as a bridge language, and many > local participants that know few English, there'll be lots of Basque speaking > and willing people (being it a local and minorised language) near local > people that know few Basque and are happy to listen to its music. We know > there's a bunch of Nederlanders and, for sure, we'll love being around them > as they speak among them and we understand little but its meklody. > > Let's all enjoy the multilingual (in-)communication and deep harmony with > wide smiles! > > Gentza Eleder Aurtenetxe Pildain > BuM_31 unJobbing > Mundaka > WOSonOS organizating team / GiGi Mundiala Eratzen > (+0034) 638.733.223 > > TRADUCTOR NEURONAL: itzultzaile automatiko neuronala > Euskara <--> English <--> Español: <--> Français > > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > > ------- Original Message ------- >> Em quarta-feira, 17 de agosto de 2022 às 08:32, Thomas Herrmann >> <[email protected]> escreveu: >> >> Thanks for sharing Harrison and all. >> >> I’ve done something similar a few times, inspired by this way to organize it >> from earlier stories, and it worked smoothly. I remember once we had some >> translators available we asked them to hang at one specific space. So people >> who wanted help could go and see if anyone was available, otherwise it was >> up to them to find someone who can help in the group the chose to attended. >> That worked fine too. >> >> THomas >> >> >> >> Från: Harrison Owen <[email protected]> >> Skickat: den 16 augusti 2022 21:37 >> Till: [email protected]; [email protected] >> Kopia: [email protected]; [email protected] >> Ämne: [OSList] Re: 5 days OST in 3 langages. Practical and general >> considerations >> >> >> >> >> Christine -- I can understand totally why you did the three language bit >> (client needs and protocols) -- and thanks for sharing. And -- in situations >> where there are multiple languages present and spoken, I have had some >> wonderful experiences doing nothing and inviting everybody to find their own >> way (open space). The first time I encountered this situation ... God knows >> when or where ... the sponsor thought we should have multiple translators >> available (I think we had about 10 languages going in a 300-400 person OS), >> the complexity of doing something like that totally overwhelmed me, leading >> me to think about the wonderful times I had spent in various international >> bars. >> >> >> >> To have a conversation with anybody you had to go through 3-4 languages with >> multiple people helping along the way. I remember in particular a wonderful >> interchange with a spanish communist in the Canary Islands, and everybody in >> the bar got involved. I can't say we were all best friends at the end of the >> evening, but it is certainly true that a group of 50+ total strangers >> experienced a surprising sense of community. So then I thought that if Open >> Space is a big coffee break, couldn't it also be a fabulous international >> bar? >> >> >> >> Being dumb and naieve, I tried it -- and it worked marvelously. I did >> suggest that when people posted issues they use whatever language the felt >> comfortalble with -- which also showed all participants what language might >> be dominant. I also suggested that they write their title in English, >> Spanish, or French, which just about everybody could more or less >> understand. I additionally suggest that if a person thought they might need >> some help they should look around for a "language partner." Truthfully it >> was very chaotic, good OS style, and it worked wonderully. In a great way >> the problem at hand became the impetus for building the community. >> >> >> >> I used that approach multiple times and it never failed. >> >> >> >> Harrison >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: christine koehler <[email protected]> >> To: info <[email protected]> >> Cc: Birgitt Williams <[email protected]>; OS list >> <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tue, Aug 16, 2022 11:32 am >> Subject: [OSList] Re: 5 days OST in 3 langages. Practical and general >> considerations >> >> Hi TOnnie >> >> >> >> Yes, it was really a pleasure to have lengthy of time. You can really go >> deep into the topics. >> >> >> >> It will be a pleasure to see you in Bilbao Tonnie ! >> >> >> >> Christine >> >> Le 15 août 2022 à 10:59, info <[email protected]> a écrit : >> >> >> >> Hi Christine, hi all >> >> Thanks for sharing your experiences and insights. I totally agree with >> Birgitt about having enough time. Also online, it should not be shorter or >> faster, but longer and slower. With people having plenty of time in between >> sessions. >> >> All my best, hope to see you in Bilbao >> >> Tonnie >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dr. Tonnie van der Zouwen MCM >> >> www.tonnievanderzouwen.nl >> >> 0650697982 >> >> >> >> >> >> -------- Oorspronkelijk bericht -------- >> >> Van: Birgitt Williams <[email protected]> >> >> Datum: 14-08-2022 22:54 (GMT+01:00) >> >> Aan: >> >> Cc: OS list <[email protected]> >> >> Onderwerp: [OSList] Re: 5 days OST in 3 langages. Practical and general >> considerations >> >> >> >> Hi Christine, >> >> Thank you for sharing. There is a lot to be learned from your >> experience...things that you currently appreciate that went well, and things >> that you are reflecting about in terms of future >> mulit-language/multi-culture opportunities. I like that you had so many >> days...the length of time surely led to the opportunity for the participants >> themselves to find their best way to navigate all that had been prepared for >> them. >> >> >> >> Hi Lucas, >> >> my only contribution to the online translation topic is the importance of >> time...enough time per session for people to figure out how to interact with >> translations and with the cultural diversity. And enough time for the OST >> event itself. What is enough time, one might ask? Sessions, just as in >> person sessions, to be at a minimum of one hour, preferably longer. OST >> events to be no less than two four hour time slots, preferably with a >> night's sleep in between for further integration via the value of sleep. >> Ideally, the event would be several days (on line, I think of a day as four >> hours). >> >> >> >> Together, we keep on progressing with what we can contribute to the leaders >> and organizations we work with. Thankfully we have great colleagues such as >> yourselves for ongoing learning and support, >> >> >> >> in genuine contact, >> >> Birgitt >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Birgitt Williams >> >> Senior consultant-author-mentor to leaders and consultants >> >> Specialist in organizational and systemic transformation, leadership >> development, and the power of nourishing a culture of leadership. >> >> www.dalarinternational.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Learn More & Register for any of our upcoming workshops here. >> >> >> >> >> >> PO Box 19373, Raleigh, NC, USA 27613 >> >> Phone: 01-919-522-7750 >> >> Like us on Facebook >> Connect on LinkedIn >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 13, 2022 at 8:24 AM Lucas Cioffi <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Thank you for sharing these insights, Christine. I especially like how >> participants at your event figured out different ways to make the >> conversations happen. >> >> >> >> I don't have any data on what I am about to write, but I believe that in >> online events where a translator is necessary, the participants become more >> empathetic and there seems to be a deeper human connection between >> participants. The result is that having translation actually changes what >> is said. I don't know why this is, but I think this is because when people >> have to listen to a language that they don't understand, they are reminded >> that there are many more things that they do not know compared to things >> they do know. I think that when participants are made to feel humble >> (coming naturally by the design of the event not by anyone telling them to >> be humble) then they have more empathy for others. >> >> >> >> Another reason that this might be true is that if translation is available, >> then the organizers were thoughtful in their design and that the meeting has >> a lot of resources to succeed. It is possible that participants see that >> the meeting has a great organizer or sufficient resources and become more >> empathetic or thoughtful or caring -- maybe it is not because they are >> humbled. >> >> >> >> All my events in the past few years have been online. Online it is possible >> to design an event with translation in at least two ways: >> >> One way is for everyone to hear the event in just their preferred language, >> with the translator (or captions created by a person or computer) talking at >> the same time as the speaker (this doesn't happen at in-person events unless >> participants are listening through headphones). >> Another way is for everyone to hear the original speaker and then have to >> wait a few seconds for the translation. This slows the conversation down, >> but this is the way that builds more empathy, I believe. >> It would be a fascinating research topic to see how translation affects the >> human connection between people. >> >> >> >> I wish a good day to all, >> >> Lucas Cioffi >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 10, 2022 at 10:50 AM christine koehler >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear all >> >> >> >> I recently facilitated an OS gathering with translation & interpretation in >> 3 langages : French, Spanish and English. I learned a lot and thought it >> might be interesting to share it with you. >> >> >> >> Context : >> >> This NGO contacted me a few months ago. They were considering OST for a >> special gathering of 80 people for 5 days, had tested it the year before >> with 2 small groups, and it worked well, but they still had questions. >> >> >> >> It was a very important gathering for them : they wanted to envision the >> future of the way they work, with the people who make it and will take >> responsibilities in the future. Their willingness was to enable any people >> from any country in the world to be able to contribute and understand >> everything. >> >> Historically the NGO was started in France, in the 60’s, and then developed >> almost all over the world, especially in South America, Africa and North >> America. Today its headquarters are still in France, where they have a >> conference room with interpreting booths. Leadership team is also mostly >> French is this is something they hoped to change in the future. >> >> The 5 days OST event was due to follow a 4 days gathering were they met in >> small groups (same group for the 4 days) to talk about personal experiences >> during their work and life. >> >> >> >> >> >> At first I was surprised of their demand of everything in 3 langages. >> >> Reg conversation, I explained them than in OS event, people help each other >> and I didn’t see how it would be possible to orient the interpreters as >> people would follow law of 2 feet. But they insisted. Same for reports : >> each report had to be translated in the 3 langages as soon as it was >> finished. >> >> >> >> So we organized it as follows : >> >> We had opening circle, with the 3 langages in the opening : Spanish for the >> organizing committee, French for the facilitation, English for a Q & A at >> the end of the opening. Interpreters were there in the booths, and everyone >> had an helmet for understanding the langage(s) he/she didn’t speak. >> >> >> >> Then we build the agenda. With the help of interpreters , usual way of >> announcements was supposed to run smoothly. >> >> The only special requirement was to write on top of page so that the >> translating team could translate it in the 2 other langages. >> >> As soon as the person had chosen a day, a time and a place and sticked >> his/her theme on the wall, the translating team would translate the title >> into the 2 other langages. >> >> We tried to used a different color for each langage so that it would be easy >> to see the change of langage. >> >> >> >> While opening the market place, we had asked everyone to write one’s name >> with a felt pen. Even if they could then change their mind. >> >> >> >> Then the coordinator of the interpreters, a lady form the NGO who knew >> everyone well and who could speak the 3 langages, would assign each >> interpreter a « room » (we worked a lot in the garden), depending on who was >> supposed to go where. >> >> >> >> For the book of proceeding, we worked with Google Drive, in which a folder >> had been created with one sub folder for each langage. >> >> One person from the team of translators registered all topics and another >> would create the document in the original langage. >> >> The reporter had to find the folder of the langage of the title, open it, >> find his/her title and type in one langage only. When completed, he/she >> would add the word FINISH at the top of the document . >> >> Then the team would use Google translate to translate into required langages >> and put the translation in the required folder. >> >> >> >> >> >> This was how it should have worked. >> >> Of course it did not happen exactly as expected >> >> >> >> For instance at the opening, the mic from the interpreters booths did not >> work, although it worked the week before. >> >> So we had a bit of a danse, with only one microphone and the interpreters >> standing behind the circle and handing the microphone to one another >> depending on who with language was spoken. Finally the tech team discovered >> a few hours later that a cable was disconnected.. >> >> >> >> Quickly for the evening and morning news, we took the habit when holding the >> microphone to say first our first name then the langage we speak. >> >> However, the group still felt inequality regarding langages, (so much easier >> for the French speaking group, who was also the largest). We tried to >> encourage speaking in a foreign language when another langage was known. For >> instance I spoke in English and my poor English was translated into French. >> But we quickly dropped it, as it made the life of the interpreters more >> difficult. >> >> >> >> During the day, it was incredibly interesting to see how they worked >> together : some groups had conversation in 3 langages, with 3 interpreter >> each at one corner of the room or sitting next to a person who needed it. >> Notes were sometimes taken on the paperboard in 2 langages by 2 different >> people. Other groups could have 2 langages or one only, or begin with one >> and end with 2 or 3, welcoming the bees that started to fly after day 2. >> >> What amazed me was the quality of focus and attention of this group. >> Incredibly focussed ! I never witnessed side conversations. They were always >> caring and paying attention to each other. But this is probably related to >> the nature of their work and this is another story. >> >> >> >> >> >> The translation of reports took about one day to find its cruising speed. >> Reports had to be read before translated so that organizational jargon was >> removed (as Google translate does not understand jargon). Then translation >> needed to be read again by the translation team (one lady was working from >> South America for the translation into Spanish). >> >> It meant that it took more time than usual to get the reports displayed on >> the walls and we had to add deadline each day that the group did not follow. >> >> >> >> Written comments on reports were conditioned to « if you want to add one >> comment, pls add a post to note, and take the responsibility to have it in >> the 3 langages ». Very discouraging, but it worked : there were 3 comments, >> that were added in the book of proceeding as a picture, all in 3 langages. >> >> >> >> The book of proceeding was discussed during evening news, as the group was >> eager to inform of their work as quickly as possible, the others who could >> not attend. Finally they agreed that the original version would be kept for >> them, and a second version, where everyone could make some corrections if >> he/she was uneasy with some sentences, would be send a few weeks later. >> >> >> >> The book of proceedings was made available either printed for those who had >> no laptop or digital for those who had one. And in each one favorite >> langage. That was also amazing. >> >> >> >> It was a very interesting experience for me : >> >> The fact that everyone must have a perfect understanding of everything has a >> consequence on facilitation, especially for the last 2 days were we went to >> action planning. Some designs were not possible because of the translation. >> More structured, it required more coordination with the interpreters team >> and more thinking ahead of time with the planning team : they were those who >> were the gardians of the langage equality , I noticed that I repeatedly >> forgot about it. >> >> And it was also a personal lesson : I was not aware that, speaking 2 >> dominant langages, I have a privileged access to communication with always >> the same people. I can see how this leads to subtil power domination, even >> if I don’t do it on purpose. >> >> And I bet I will quickly forget it, if I am not reminded frequently. >> >> >> >> I will probably reminder for a while something I heard already years ago and >> that someone said in the closing circle : « when you tell jokes », as jokes >> don’t translate easily or even don’t translate at all in other cultures, « I >> don’t get it. It makes me feel separated from you ». In this group, with >> this level of care for each other which really I never witnessed before, >> this comment had a huge impact of my understanding of what makes a >> community, how strong it might be and how fragile it might also be. >> Something to cherish and nurture day by day.. >> >> >> >> >> >> Christine Koehler >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OSList mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> > > _______________________________________________ > OSList mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
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