Le 10-nov.-05, à 05:45, Brian Scurfield a écrit (for-list):

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Bruno - To summarise, the quantum theory of immortality arises from the following considerations: 1. You cannot distinguish among all your identical first-person observer moments. 2. From a first-person perspective, you cannot experience a dead state, for death is no experience whatsoever. 3. The number of identical first-person moments is in aleph_1 (i.e., the continuum). 4. For every path that leads to your death, there is another path where you remain alive (the no cul-de-sac conjecture)

OK. They are aleph_1 part (with the continuum hypothesis). The no

`cul-de-sac conjecture is just the idea that the probabilities are`

`defined by making abstraction of the dead-end or even of finite path`

`leading to dead-end.`

Therefore, from a first-person perspective, you are immortal! Now, the argument is silent on the question of information flow. In many scenarios, you remain alive because the local thermodynamics "conspire" to remove you from a life-extinguishing situation: There is no information flow.

`I don't see why. From the first person perspective information grows by`

`the measurment which selects alternative histories.`

It has often been pointed out on this list that universes are those parts of the multiverse down which information flows. So Harry Potter "universes" are not in fact universes.

`What do you mean by "parts of the multiverse down which information`

`flows"?`

`Harry Potter universes are just improbable, and information grows to`

`much there. It is almost like they got singularities in the amount of`

`information. But death, well, really it is an open problem, because you`

`must take into account the normal (statistical, based on the measure on`

`the "observer/moment/states/worlds...") possible histories just going`

`locally through exceptional states, I just get the math for beginning`

`to state the problem, really, there could be jumps, and hard to state`

`identity problems).`

It would seem, then, that the no cul-de-sac conjecture needs to take into account information flow. Are there always paths where you remain alive *down which information flows*?

`I don't know. I'm not sure I understand the question. Perhaps you could`

`elaborate a little bit and explain the expression "down which`

`information flows".`

Bruno

Brian Scurfield. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Bruno Marchal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:I believe that the quantum theory does not allow cul-de-sac branches. I also believe that the Godel-Lob theory of self- reference not only allow cul-de-sac branches, but it imposes them everywhere: from all alive states you can reach a dead end. The Universal Dovetailer Argument shows that the physics (which has no dead ends) should be given by the self-reference logics (with reachable dead end everywhere). I have been stuck in that contradiction a very long time ... ... until I realized the absolute necessity of distinguishing the first and third person point of views. That necessity is implied itself by the incompleteness phenomena, but that is technical (ask me on the everything-list if interested). The intuitive point here is that you cannot have a first person point of view on your own death: 1-death is not an event, and should be kept out of the domain of verification of probabilistic statements. Another intuition: the finite histories are of measure null among the collection of all histories (the continuum).------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your homepagehttp://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/pyIolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/