We can observe a closed system at two points in time t0, t1 say. The
system is closed in between, but not at the point of observation,
obviously.

The evolution of the system between the two observation points must
follow closed system laws.

Cheers

On Mon, May 01, 2006 at 06:42:26PM -0700, John M wrote:
> 
> 
> Tom: one excerpt I try to address:
> 
> "Closed system (Principia Cybernetica): An isolated
> system having no
> interaction with an environment.  A system whose
> behavior is entirely
> explainable from within, a system without input..."
> (I skip the rest, including the mathematical closure
> as irrelevant for my reply).
> 
> How do you know about such system?
> What I mean is: if NO interaction reaches or leaves
> the 'system', (it includes 'information as well) it
> does
> not even 'exist' for us. It is more than a 'black
> hole' which is said to be receptive. A 'closed
> no-thing'?
> 
> John M
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Caylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Everything List"
> <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 6:18 PM
> Subject: Re: why can't we erase information?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruno Marchal wrote:
> > Le 25-avr.-06, à 17:37, Tom Caylor a écrit :
> >
> > >
> > > In fact, "closed system" and "meta element" seem
> to be contradictory.
> >
> > Not necessarily. It could depend of what you mean
> exactly by "closed".
> > Closure for the diagonalization procedure is the
> key. Diagonalization
> > is the key of the "heart of the matter". I will come
> back on this
> > later.
> >
> 
> Closed system (Principia Cybernetica): An isolated
> system having no
> interaction with an environment.  A system whose
> behavior is entirely
> explainable from within, a system without input...
> 
> Mathematically, a closed system contains its boundary,
> or it contains
> its limit points.  In other words, anything
> expressable with the given
> axioms/language is itself a member the system.
> ...SKIP
> Tom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
-- 
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