Dear Lennart,
I did not read Cooper's argumentation, but would like to learn (I don't 
believe he explained that) with what kind of logical system is he capable of 
thinking except for the ONE which our mind provided - within the 
circumstances and evolutionary process (I call the 'history' of this entire 
universe: evolution)
we 'live' in?
Whatever one imagines is human-bound.
I do not disagree with the formulation of Cooper you wrote, In our tens of 
billennia long mental development we (i.e. humans after  our evolutionary 
ancestors) formulated ever enriching and changing (limited) models for 'this 
world' and the latest 1-2 centuries of the last millennium resulted in the
"3+1D version I referred to. Lately, reaching into the 3rd mill, we started 
to apply a novel thinking paradigm with a different logic (Bruno?).
I don't know about a "classic" one.
I still use my common sense - allowing to changes by this new pattern in the 
epistemic enrichment process. So MY common sense thinking may be different 
from J. Lock's common sense.
The generally accepted (scientific, physical) 'system' is based on 
restricted observations and their calculative compromise into quantitative 
matches. Restricted by the use of ancient to modern instruments and a 
continuation of belief system.  All supporting the "model" of a successful, 
reductionist scientific edifice of old. Laws, axioms, Big Bang, spin, 
gravity, collapse of  the wave function, DNA, to eliminate the older ones.

It is 'all logical', our logic served in explaining those poorly 
received/understood effects over the centuries.
It seems Cooper made that step ahead, I just fail to get the "classical". 
(Will search for the book).

John M





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lennart Nilsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 11:47 AM
Subject: SV: Only logic is necessary?



" We are a quite sinple system (depicted in 3+1 D), so
our logic is also pretty simple (one-way pragmatic)."

Actually Cooper shows that even our simple system is not classically
logical...

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] För John M
Skickat: den 5 juli 2006 17:30
Till: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Ämne: Re: Only logic is necessary?


Lennart:
J.Cohen and I.Stewart in their chef d'oeuvre "Collapse
of Chaos" play around with aliens who they call
Zarathustrans, and who display a different 'alien'
logic. It is quite refreshing. You say: Sound? brings
up the tune of the Latin maxim:
mens sana in corpore  sano assigning the 'mental' to
the body we deal with. I reformulated this latter as:
the mind is limited by the 'material' tools we use.
Other tools? - maybe other logic, other math.

A uiniverse IMO is structured by the ingredients it
started with in the unlimited variability of infinite
BigBangs (my narrative) consequently the relations of
those different ingredients (universe-system, call it
universe consciousness etc.) may evolve different self
reflective complex conglomerates (like here: it is us
humans)  with accordingly shaped mentality (logic,
math, etc.)
We are a quite sinple system (depicted in 3+1 D), so
our logic is also pretty simple (one-way pragmatic).
Other universes may be more sophisticated and I have
pity for those poor fellow (simpleminded) humans who
may 'teleport' or 'duplicate' into such - much  more
sophisticated worlds and may become there their stupid
bums<G> with their memory-experience-logic luggage.

John M

--- Lennart Nilsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> William S. Cooper says: "The absolutist outlook has
> it that if a logic is
> valid at all it is valid period. A sound logic is
> completely sound
> everywhere and for everyone, no exceptions! For
> absolutist logicians a
> logical truth is regarded as 'true in all possible
> worlds', making logical
> laws constant, timeless and universal."
>
> Where do the laws of logic come from? he asks the
> absolutist.
>
> Bruno?
>
>








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