Bruno, I reviewed the archive and found no reply. I will repeat it again, hoping for your thoughts:
from July 2, 2006 (lightly amended and then addended) Bruno, I have found myself in this lifetime to be a staunch OP-ponent and challenger to Godel's incompleteness theorems. In the way that they are structured - with the premises Godel preset: of initial boundaries for what he was about to design by 'proof' - his theorems -are- both sufficiently closed and constituently -accurate- in their conclusion and notions. _But_ what I find disturbing about them is that they are RELIANT on a more formative -presumption-, which presumption enables an analyst to draw quite a -contrary result- to what Godel announced. A self-discontinuity _within_ his theorems, as it were. Clearly, this: He tacitly identifies any information resident -outside- any that current/known, as -eventually accessible, connectible, relatable-; even if it means restructuring known-information in regard to alternative/new criteria and standards definitions, descriptions, statements. A presumption/definition of universal information compatibility - of all information - whether known or unknown. It is through this process of "add then re-evaluate" that new paradigms are achieved. But, it is dependent on the compatibility of the -whole- scope of all the information present at that moment of evaluation; and the eventual capacity to coordinate statements with all content addressable by statements. So, his thesis that at any given moment in time, not all information is present or gathered, and that this makes for limited statement making, where some evaluation statements in the data-set may instead be reliant on future/other yet-to-be-included information .. is a worthy logical notion. A closed system may not completely evaluate itself -- some evaluations are indeterminant. But, instead of focusing on the random evaluation moment, think about what that presumption of 'eventual includability' dictates: It heavily defines that we -can- (right now) state -something specific and projective- about the qualia and nature of knowledge and information -- currently -beyond- the bounds of actual experience and encounter and access. It also asserts: information 'unknown' is compatible with and eventually relatable with information 'known'. The first foundation of Godel's '"I can't decide about that" Theorems' is the contrary moot statement: 'I -can- decide about -everything- and here's why'; -- which is a contradiction of logic. That is: The "limited" set can make true-false statement about the -totality- of existence (internal and external to its bounded known-ness); but, it cannot guarantee it's own true-false statements (without some added 'external' information, made eventually internal to a boundary). At which point, some/all old non-decidables would be rendered decidable, and, -new- undecidables would arise, apparently. I would say, the logic of future science and knowledge is -incorrectly- contrained and defined by current interpretion of Godel's Incompleteness Theorems. Rather, the logic of future science and knowledge is premised in Information and Performance Holism. The unitary interactional and information accessible quality of Existence. Which fundamental notion is what Godel ignores and rejects and tries to discredit. Where, we CAN in fact make DECISIVE STATEMENTS -about that which- the incompleteness theorems 'conclude': we should not be able to say -anything- at all. You can absolutely place me in the community of thinkers who do not "swallow the incompleteness phenomena". Because my statements/logic are not incorrect and they do identify the flaw/weakness/incorrectness in Godel. He used not a tautology but a self-contradictory tautology logic. If A then not-A ; if not-A, then never an inclusive (A & not A) as long as not-A exists; and since not-A always exists then A is not accessible to evaluate not-A, or perfectly assess itself, (A); HOWEVER, A -can- assert (A¬A) and assess (A¬A) which includes (not-A). All Godel did was give a validation for information hiding and manipulation -- something useful to politicians and economic manipulators and spiritual advocates: You can keep people trapped and powerless by limiting their access to added (ostensibly important) information, that would otherwise allow them to make decisions, which an outer-heirarchy might not want them to make. Godel's Incompleteness Theorems didn't do Science or Math or Logic any favors. Nor the societal future for that matter. The first order rule of 'universality' is requisite non-excludable compatibility and consistency. Even if subset incompatibilities are conditionally allowed, (say matter and anti-matter mutual anihilation) the fact that they interact at all indicates they -share- 'reaction' parameters; they may not survive interaction but they are 'interactionable' due to shared scope of qualia. The most extreme form of universality is forms that 'exist' but cannot even communicate (interact); The possibility of co-existing in the same domain but perfectly non-interactive. "Universality" allows this -and- by doing so completes perfect self-definition. Non-information transferability is umbrellaed in 'the universal' and affirms that there is an ultimate holistic compatibility state for all extancy of any sort or non-sort. The ultimate/absolute "invariance rule". After this, partitioning gets you to mini-rules (like the Godel Incmp Thms). But first and foremost: nothing exists absent of co-existence or 'environment'. With the corrolary: nothing is perfectly self-definied - companion existence is included even if sufficiently distanced to be functionally disregarded for local purposes. Which then leads to the logical deduction that no 'clone' or -seemingly- "duplicate" can ever be. No 'perfect replicate' persona is possible -- without the perfect replication (without ANY variance) of the entire rest of the universe as well. No matter how uncannily close in replication, each individual must of needs, be its -own persona-. But the first order of business is to clean house and get out from under Godel's mis-leading authority & ideas. ! Jamie Rose --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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