Russell Standish wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 11:46:08AM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote:
> 
>>
>>Le 24-juil.-06, à 13:56, Russell Standish a écrit :
>>
>>
>>>Consciousness is the state of "being like something" to use Nagel's
>>>term. It is also the characteristic of the "reference class" in
>>>Anthropic reasoning.
>>>
>>>Self-awareness is being aware of oneself as a distinct thing different
>>>from the environment.
>>>
>>>It is not immediately obvious that these are identical - but perhaps
>>>I'm overlooking something.
>>
>>
>>I am pretty sure consciousness and self-awareness are different concept.
>>But we are a long way to distinguishing them theoretically at the 
>>present stage, so I would say that to insist on the difference here is 
>>akin to a 1004 fallacy, imo.
>>The difference you are mentioning is the difference between awareness 
>>and self-awareness, or between consciousness and self-consciousness I 
>>would say,
>>
>>Bruno
> 
> 
> Are they different or not? If we use different words for them, that
> indicates that there is a difference.
> 
> I wasn't satisfied with Stathis's answer, but there has to be some
> reason why consciousness cannot appear without
> self-awareness. Otherwise the Occam catastrophe will bring down all of
> Platonia on our heads!

I'd say it's the other way around.  Self-awareness can't appear without 
consciousness.  My dog is 
conscious in that he knows his name and he knows he's different from my wife's 
dog, whose name he 
also knows.  But I don't think he has the reflexive self-awareness of a human 
being, an "inner 
narrative".  I don't see how you could have self-awareness without being 
conscious, but I'm often 
conscious without being self-aware.

Brent Meeker

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