Russell Standish wrote: > On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 11:46:08AM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >>Le 24-juil.-06, à 13:56, Russell Standish a écrit : >> >> >>>Consciousness is the state of "being like something" to use Nagel's >>>term. It is also the characteristic of the "reference class" in >>>Anthropic reasoning. >>> >>>Self-awareness is being aware of oneself as a distinct thing different >>>from the environment. >>> >>>It is not immediately obvious that these are identical - but perhaps >>>I'm overlooking something. >> >> >>I am pretty sure consciousness and self-awareness are different concept. >>But we are a long way to distinguishing them theoretically at the >>present stage, so I would say that to insist on the difference here is >>akin to a 1004 fallacy, imo. >>The difference you are mentioning is the difference between awareness >>and self-awareness, or between consciousness and self-consciousness I >>would say, >> >>Bruno > > > Are they different or not? If we use different words for them, that > indicates that there is a difference. > > I wasn't satisfied with Stathis's answer, but there has to be some > reason why consciousness cannot appear without > self-awareness. Otherwise the Occam catastrophe will bring down all of > Platonia on our heads!
I'd say it's the other way around. Self-awareness can't appear without consciousness. My dog is conscious in that he knows his name and he knows he's different from my wife's dog, whose name he also knows. But I don't think he has the reflexive self-awareness of a human being, an "inner narrative". I don't see how you could have self-awareness without being conscious, but I'm often conscious without being self-aware. Brent Meeker --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---