Bruno Marchal wrote: > FP2: I do periphrases to talk about it. It is a confusing notion (cf > Chalmers "delusion"). Mathematically it needs bimodal logics (or just G > handled with care);
Bruno Thanks for the summary, I'll look out for the roadmap. I'd just like to clarify the role of FP2 above: Where FP1i is an individual first-person-as-instantiated, FP2 is its analog in what I've termed the 'shareable knowledge base' (SKB) that is part of the structure of FP1i. The reason I make this distinction is that when I make some unqualified reference simply to 'Bruno', it is not thereby clear whether this is meant to indicate 'FP2 Bruno' - i.e the representation you or I have of 'Bruno' in the SKB - or 'FP1 Bruno', the unique entity to which my FP2 analog refers. In inter-personal dialogue, this can become really confusing because one party may be conceptualising in an FP2-manner - i.e. thinking in a 'naturalistic' way purely in terms of the FP2 representation of the world and its embedded FP2 representations of first persons - when the other (usually me, I must confess) is thinking in an FP1-manner - i.e. extrapolating from the FP2 representations to their FP1 referents. Such confusion may be implicated in 'Chalmers' delusion' and other puzzles. I say something about this in my comments on your earlier posts. To be consistent, what I'm calling FP2 should be split along the lines of FP1 into: FP2g - representations in the SKB of FP1g FP2i - representations in the SKB of FP1i Does the above clarification make a difference? David > Le 07-août-06, à 22:12, David Nyman a écrit : > > > > 1) FP1g - primitive 'global' first person entity or context > > 2) FP1i - individual person delimited by primitive differentiation > > (which is agnostic to comp, physics, or anything else at this logical > > level) > > 3) FP2 - narrative references to first persons, as in 'David is a first > > person', an attribution, as opposed to 'David-as-first-person', a > > unique entity. > > 4) TP - third person, or structure-read-as-information, as opposed to > > structure-demarcating-an-entity > > > > OK, I copy this in some file so as to be able to come back on it later. > If I comment it here, before the "roadmap-summary", it will be > confusing. Still, before I send the "roadmap" I give the correspondence > for those who have followed your posts and remember my earlier > summaries. > > FP1g will most probably correspond to the "time/knowledge" modal logic > S4Grz; > FP1i will not be explicitly treated, but can correspond to any > particular relative implementation of a self-referentially correct > machine. Then S4Grz will still work, but its arithmetical > interpretations can vary; > FP2: I do periphrases to talk about it. It is a confusing notion (cf > Chalmers "delusion"). Mathematically it needs bimodal logics (or just G > handled with care); > TP: will correspond to the G and G* logic of arithmetical reference, > including self-reference. Of course the dissociation of the > corresponding logics into G and G* (and the non-dissociation of the 1 > person logic S4Grz = S4Grz*, is a key phenomenon which is forced by the > incompleteness phenomenon. G corresponds to the provable > self-referential statements and G* will correspond to the true > self-referential statements. That the set of true statements minus the > set of provable statements (that is G* \ G) is not empty is due to > Godel incompleteness. > > But there are other hypostases (person pov): the 0-person pov (More or > less Nagel's pov from nowhere) which can be just "arithmetical truth" > with the comp. hyp. It plays the role of the neoplatonist "ONE" in the > arithmetical interpretation of Plotinus's hypostases. > Then there is the "matter" or "1-plural-pov" where "matter" becomes > apparent ... > > I will try to present a roadmap tomorrow or the day after. In the > meantime you could consult my SANE paper: > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/publications/ > SANE2004MARCHALAbstract.html > You can also download the UDA slides for reference to its 8 steps > presentation. > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/publications/SANE2004Slide.pdf > > Bruno > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---