Colin Hales wrote:

> Think about it...When you put the scientist back inside the picture, the
> measurement process (qualia) that literally are qualia is directly causally
> linked to the appearance you get!

The scientist has never been separate in that sense.
The question is *how* qualia are causally produced,
or rather, how they can emerge from structure.

>The underlying structure unifies the whole
> system. Of course you'll get some impact via the causality of the
> structure....via the deep structure right down into the very fabric of
> space.
> In a very real way the existence of 'mysterious observer dependence' is
> actually proof that the hierarchically organised S(.) structure idea must be
> somewhere near the answer.

Not really. You can have a two-way causal interdependene between
two systems without them both having th esame structure.

> Note that we don't actually have to know what S(.) is to make a whole pile
> of observations of properties of organisations of it that apply regardless
> of the particular S(.). It may be we never actually get to sort out the
> specifics of S(.)! (I have an idea, but it doesn't matter from the point of
> view of understanding qualia as another property of the structure like
> atoms).

> In Bruno's terms the structure of S(.) is what he calls 'objective reality'.
> I would say that in science the first person view has primacy.

Epistemic or Ontic ?

>  I'd say that
> we formulate abstractions that correlate with agreed appearances within the
> first person view. However, the correspo0ndence between the underlying
> structure and the formulate abstractions is only that - a correlation. Our
> models are not the structure.

*Could* they be the structure ? if it necessarily
the case that the "structure" cannot be modelled, then
it is perhaps no strcuture at all.

> Yes....all these things rely on perceptual mechanisms which will
> found in quantum mechanics....nor any other
> depiction of appearances.

Why not ?

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