Quentin Anciaux wrote: > Le Wednesday 30 Août 2006 21:26, 1Z a écrit : > > Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > Peter Jones writes: > > > > > > > Saying that there is a material substrate which has certain > > > > > > > properties is just a working assumption to facilitate thinking > > > > > > > about the real world. It may turn out that if we dig into quarks > > > > > > > very deeply there is nothing "substantial" there at all, but > > > > > > > solid matter will still be solid matter, because it is defined by > > > > > > > its properties, not by some mysterious raw physical substrate. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not using the Bare Substrate to explian "solidity", which is > > > > > > as you say > > > > > > a matter of properties/behaviour. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am using it to explain contingent existence, and (A series) time. > > > > > > > > > > We could say that matter is that which feels solid, reflects light, > > > > > distorts spacetime etc. and leave it at that. > > > > > > > > However, that is mere behaviour. I need a defiition > > > > which digs deeper than behaviour,and I have one. > > > > > > All I see is mere behaviour. > > > > All you see is phenomena in your own mimd, says the solipsist.. > > "There is no other solipsist than me" he would say... As the solipsist is the > only real... but it is a disgression and as usual you answer by question or > opinion which are not yours.
I am making the point that if you apply the "I don't believe in a anything I can't see" principle *consistently*, you don't just abandon matter, you also abandon Other Minds. > > >When I say that something is as real as this desk in front of me, I am > > > saying that it is as real as the mere mere behaviour in front of me > > > > How do you know it is really in front of you ? > > This is still a language babeling... define real (for you) then we can > discuss... But I'll try to do it for you. > What is real is what is material. Materiality define what is real... Don't > forget to byte the snake. What is real is what Quentin can see..what Quentin can see is real... two can play at the snake-biting game. > > > - as opposed to the desk in my > > > dreams, which lacks such behaviour. Do you think we really disagree about > > > desks? If it looks like a desk, feels like a desk etc., then it's a desk. > > > It doesn't add anything to say that it also contains "essence of real > > > desk" to distinguish it from dream desks, because dream desks differ from > > > real desks in other ways. > > > > Well, what is the difference ? How do you escape solipsism without > > embracing materialism ? > > How do you escape the circle without leaving materialism ? What you have is a choice of circles. > Quentin --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---