Le 18-déc.-06, à 20:04, Brent Meeker a écrit :

> Bruno Marchal wrote:
> ...
>>> Moreover, I don't have to justify it in terms of other
>>> ethical principles or commandments from God:
>> With (a)comp, you have to NOT justify it in terms of God. With comp
>> (and God = +/- Plotinus'one) we could justify that any *action* made 
>> in
>> the name of God is bad, even saving the planet from some attack by
>> horrible monster ...
> That seems to be a reductio against comp.

I know it seems a little bit paradoxical, but then it is my methodology 
to take seriously the interview of the lobian machine, which is 
"famous" for its many paradoxical thoughts.
It is certainly not a reductio against comp, given that we are not 
arriving at a genuine contradiction. It just happens that "goodness" is 
as unnameable as truth.
Now, concerning this paradox, it seems to me intuitively 
comprehensible. If someone saves me from some horrible pain, then that 
is (arguably) good; but if he does that in the *name* of "good", I can 
understand that this naming depreciates its action. Even if personally 
I am still benefiting from that situation, the naming could make me 
uneasy, and who knows what will be done under that or any name.

>> Witrh comp (and the "ideal" case of self-referentially correct 
>> machine)
>> it is just impossible for a machine to do something good and at the
>> same time telling she is doing something good ... (similar paradoxes
>> are illustrated in taoist and buddhist tales).
> So one cannot be reflective about one's actions and conclude they are 
> good? That sounds like nonsense.

We can be reflective about one's actions and conclude *for ourselve* 
that they are good, but lobianity prevents correct machine to 
communicate it to others *as such*,  if only to prevent any normative 
use of a notion like "goodness". It prevents also idolatry toward names 
or descriptions of "good", "true", "correct". With comp a judge can put 
a machine in jail, despite its total inability to ever judge the 
machine deserve jail.

Some buddhist told this in some provocative way: if you really love 
buddha, kill it.   (Not to take literally OC).

Recall that once we interview a correct machine, be it Peano-Arithmetic 
PA, or the far richer Zermelo-Fraenkel, or even the "angel" 
Analysis+OmegaRule (which has infinite cognitive abilities), the first 
interesting thing such machines or entity say is that they will told us 
some bullshit or that they may told us some bullshit. So am I. Please, 
don't infer from that that I believe to be such a *correct* machine 
(that does not follow logically). I know "I" am lobian, assuming comp 
or (much) weaker. I don't know (and will never known) if I am 
consistent and I still less know if I am correct.



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