Brent: Brent: It seems your answer is that it's just a convention that you happen to have learned - a mere artifact of culture as propounded by various post-modernists. JM: In our culture and its predecessors primitive observations led to explanations at the level of the then epistemic cognitive inventory, which increases continually. Those simplistic ideas were retained and mended in later 'science' of better learning epochs but the basis has not changed: a "physical" view of "facts" and the way we still do value them as our "reality." Composed into 'models' (groups) of their own. If you call a newer look - based upon newer epistemic enrichment - as "propounded by various post-modernists" - well, so be it, I don't consider it pejorative.
Brent (on the "101"): We are influenced by it because it has been very successful. I don't fly in airplanes designed by alternative engineering. Unconventional ideas interest me only in so far as they work as well or better than conventional ones. JM: I think I hear a mix up of "the only one we have" for "the best one there is". Your airplanes fall off the sky sometimes (spare me the statistics, please, 1 is more than enough) contraceptives fail, houses burn down for electric failures, there are wars in the conventionally based social culture, our biosphere is going berserk because of our perfect scientific applications, we have technology-related diseases, nuclear fall outs, medical mishaps, politicians (oops) and food poisoning, bridge collapses and other innumerable examples of safety failures of our '101'-based perfect efficiency in this world. We live (and use) the ONLY one we have. Our pretension lists the benefits and deems it the best. For the caveman the BEST weapon was the hand-ax. For a priest the best science is HIS theology. For a monotheist the best god is his god. If you are not interested in the 'unconventional novelties' before they prove to be superior then our ongoing ignorance, you will never get to them. I go for it, not necessarily successful, but I try. And don't give up. I don't believe that you want to stay put in the science-religion of our axioms, emergence, 'givens', chaotic paradoxical beliefs and the cosmologists' Big Bang narrative. And all the other marvels based on '101'. Atoms, molecules, spin, energy, space, time, mass, gravitation, electricity, light, life, mind, etc. just to name some. They all are usable tools for some practical tasks as long as we have no better ones to use and explanation for them. In the meantime have a happy new year John M On 12/23/06, Brent Meeker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
John Mikes wrote: > Brent: > let me start at the end: > "So why don't you believe it?" > because I am prejudiced by the brainwashing I got in 101 science education, > the 'conventional' thinking of the (ongoing) science establishment - still > brainwashing the upcoming scientist-generations with the same '101' - > (which is also an answer to your 'conventional' quest:) It seems your answer is that it's just a convention that you happen to have learned - a mere artifact of culture as propounded by various post-modernists. > Unconventional is a lot on this list many of them to my liking (personal!) > and seemingly to yours, too. > > I leave it to the "conventional"(<G>) scientists to agree whether the Earth > is spherical (if it IS?) and used this example from the precedent texts > just > as an 'unconventional' variant thinking. > We (all, I suppose) are under a lot of influence from the 101 sciences and > my point was exactly to raise another possibility (absurd as it may be). We are influenced by it because it has been very successful. I don't fly in airplanes designed by alternative engineering. Unconventional ideas interest me only in so far as they work as well or better than conventional ones. Brent Meeker "They laughed at Bozo the Clown too." >
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