On Mar 2, 4:54 am, "Stathis Papaioannou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 3/2/07, Tom Caylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> God would be outside of the plenitude, and thus would break the
>
> > meaning/moral circularity inherent in the plenitude, breaking its
> > symmetry of meaningless whiteness/blackness and bringing order.  He
> > basically would be in charge of the evolution of the countless
> > histories of the universes.  But this seems superfluous to what is
> > needed for meaning for us in this universe.  Thus why bother with
> > multiverses?  You haven't shown how multiverses give meaning.
>
> What about considering God as identical with the plenitude? In a sense, both
> are omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, transcendent as well as immanent,
> outside of time and space, the source of all things, and the plenitude has
> the additional attribute of necessary existence, which is philosophically
> contentious in God's case (the ontological argument again).
>

Your proposal totally erases God from the picture (which is precisely
what you want to do, so it is successful, in your view).
This leaves the original problem as I've explained:  The
"picture" (Everything) is totally blank to begin with.

> No doubt you will say that the plenitude is not a person and cannot provide
> love, morality and meaning. Let's assume this is true for the sake of the
> discussion, and let's assume that there is a separate non-plenitude God who
> creates a real world imbued with these gifts. But even God can't destroy
> mathematics, so the plenitude will give rise to creatures in parallel with
> God's real world. These simulated creatures will not know they are simulated
> and will not know that there is no overseeing God, no ultimate meaning etc.:
> they will go about their business in a delusional state just as if they were
> in the real world. The question is, how can I tell whether I am in the real
> world or in the godless (or deistic, or pantheistic) plenitude?
>
> Stathis Papaioannou

You are hypothetically putting God in charge of only part of reality.

Tom


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