you may read anything and the contrary of it. We have to make up *our own
mind* for ourselves, I mean: *not to persuade others to accept it*, yet
maybe *include* in our version whatever we find reasonable in all those
(contradictory?) opinions that have been published by "smart" scientists.
I could go with Brent's formulation: quarks etc. are figments of the model
we formulated in the 'physicalstic' train of explanations *till
yesterday*(my def. for 'up-to-date') while whatever we call
'conscious experience' is closer to the unlimited complexity - assumable as
a building block for the totality. So no wonder of the 'supervenience'
"We call" I wrote showing my agnostic stance.
Your closing sentence is appreciable:
*"This means that conscious experience at least changes the movements of
quarks and electrons"*
in"my" terms at least: considering the physicalist view as a figment of our
model-construct of whatever we so far know (learned through our epistemic
enrichment till yesterday).
I try to be more evasive and uncertain in my ignorance (agnosticism) of the
*"TOTALITY" - *
*my (our) *knowledge restricted to a portion of it only.
But the 'conventional science' is admirable, the technology it helped to
develop is incredible and "ALMOST" good - as I put it referring to the
(influencing) factors of the still unknow(n)(able) part of it. With
mathematical equations we substitute "all of it" for the part we already
know. No licence for the still unknown (maybe in Heisenberg's thinking yes).
I have no intention to engage in a physicalistic discussion which is beyond
On 9/7/10, Evgenii Rudnyi <use...@rudnyi.ru> wrote:
> on 07.09.2010 05:11 Rex Allen said the following:
>> On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 11:01 PM, Brent Meeker
>> <meeke...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>> On 9/6/2010 6:45 PM, Rex Allen wrote:
> Put a different way:
>> According to physicalism conscious experience supervenes on quarks
>> and electrons. Quarks and electrons do not supervene on conscious
> I have just read Vital Dust, The Origin and Evolution of Life on Earth by
> Christian de Duve. One citation from the chapter The Future of Life (p.
> "We have reached a crucial state in the history of life. The face of the
> Earth has changed dramatically in the last few thousand years, a mere
> instant in evolution time, and it is changing ever faster. What would have
> taken one thousands generations in the past may now happen in a single
> generation. Biological evolution is on a runaway course toward severe
> In a way, our time recalls one of those major breaks in evolution signaled
> by massive extinctions. But there is a difference. The cause of instability
> is not the impact of a large asteroid or some other uncontrollable event.
> The perturbation is from life itself acting through a species of its own
> creation, an immensely successful species filling every corner of the planet
> with continually growing throngs, increasingly subjugating and exploiting
> the world. For the first time, also, in the history of life, natural
> selection has been replaced, be it only partly, by willful intervention on
> the part of a member of the bioshperic community. The facts are before us
> clear and unmistakable. Everybody can read the message and draw the obvious
> This means that conscious experience at least changes the movements of
> quarks and electrons.
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