-----Original Message----- From: Bruno Marchal Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 9:10 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Movie cannot think

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On 10 Mar 2011, at 13:47, Andrew Soltau wrote: > All the moments exist, and as Deutsch points out, as you summarise, > 'The appearance of change is already explained by the fact that > there are different frames that have an implicit sequence and in > which the observers state is different', but for change to actually > happen, the magic finger must move. Otherwise reality would be like > a movie film sitting in the can in storage. The change in the "working program" is brought by the "universal machine" which interprets it. All you need is an initial universal "machine". It happens that addition and multiplication, with first order logic is enough to define such an initial universal system, and the UDA+MGA shows that the laws of mind, including the laws of matter, does not depend on the choice of the initial universal system. So elementary arithmetic does emulate, in the mathematical sense, computations. Arithmetic does not just describe all those computations: it literally emulate them. This is not trivial to show, although computer science gives the insight. Computations in arithmetic are not like movie, they are like a observer line universe in a block universe. To add an external time reintroduces a mystery where it is not needed. That use of time is like the use of "God" as gap explanation by the pseudo-religious (authoritative) people. You will end up with a primitive time, a primitive matter, and why not a primitive "god" responsible for all this. That is, in my opinion, the correct insight of Deutsch. Except that he mentions an "implicit sequence", which is typically made explicit by the universal machine which emulates, albeit statically or arithmetically-realistically, the computation. All computations in that setting are ultimately based on the explicit sequence 0, s(0), s(s(0)), ... (or the equivalent in the combinators, etc.). Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ ** Dear Bruno, I only really have one difficulty with this thought: What choose that particular "initial universal 'machine'"? If it cannot be shown to be unique in contrast to all possible machines, what makes it special? We may be blinded by the sophistication and brilliance of our logics but can we really be sure that there is not a deeper level at which this LĂ¶bian machine is just another in a vast infinitude? Consider G. Chiatin's Omega! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaitin%27s_constant I question the entire premise of a "special initial conditions"! Why must we believe that there really is a singularity that 'causes' it at all? Why must we recycle that old theological idea? Are there no viable alternatives? Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.