On 06 Mar 2011, at 14:18, Andrew Soltau wrote:

## Advertising

On 07/02/11 15:22, Bruno Marchal wrote:I have debunked more than once on this list the idea that a moviecan think. (It is an error akin to the confusion between a numberand a gĂ¶del number of a number, a confusion between a descriptionof a computation and a computation, it is a confusion of the typefinger and moon (ultrafrequent in the field).However, a movie can of course represent / be a train of thought.

`A movie (figuring a boolean plane computing device doing a`

`computation) can *represent* a computation and can, as such,`

`*represent* a train of thought, but it cannot *be* a train of thought.`

`There is just no computation in the movie, no more than actual cause`

`in a movie. I have more elaborated argument for showing that a movie`

`cannot think, except in the sense that all piece of matter sum up all`

`computations, due to a non trivial fractal aspect of the universal`

`dovetailing (cf my post to Brent).`

Then all you need is the thinker. I am most intrigued to understandhow your theory gives rise to a thinker.

`A tiny arithmetical theory, like Robinson Arithmetic (roughly`

`equivalent with Peano Arithmetic without the induction axiom) can`

`already prove the existence of all UD-reachable computational states.`

`So if your current thought is "I am hungry", there is a relative`

`computational state corresponding to that thinker's feeling, and`

`Robinson Arithmetic can prove that such state exists.`

`To explain the stability of such feeling is far more demanding,`

`because such a stability will rely not only on *all* proofs of the`

`existence of such states, but also on never terminating proofs (of`

`false proposition for example) (re)proving the existence of your`

`states. Non terminating executions of programs and infinite proofs are`

`the real (with comp) stabilizer of the relative computational states.`

`Roughly speaking, the thinkers or the dreamers are the universal`

`numbers relatively to all other universal numbers.`

`(A universal number is just the (finite) code of a universal (Turing,`

`Post, Church, Kleene, ...) digital machine.`

Assuming comp, as always. Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.