On 29.01.2012 23:47 meekerdb said the following:
On 1/29/2012 9:02 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
On 29.01.2012 00:57 meekerdb said the following:
On 1/28/2012 3:15 PM, Pierz wrote:

On Jan 28, 11:04 pm, Evgenii Rudnyi<use...@rudnyi.ru> wrote:


Let my quote Jeffrey Gray (Consciousness: Creeping up on the
Hard Problem, p. 33) on biology and physics.

"In very general terms, biology makes use of two types of
concept: physicochemical laws and feedback mechanisms. The
latter include both the feedback operative in natural
selection, in which the controlled variables that determine
survival are nowhere explicitly represented within the
system; and servomechanisms, in which there is a specific
locus of representation capable of reporting the values of
the controlled variables to other system components and to
other systems. The relationship between physicochemical laws
and cybernetic mechanisms in the biological perspective on
biology poses no deep problems. It consist in a kind of a
contract: providing cybernetics respects the laws of physics
and chemistry, its principles may be used to construct any
kind of feedback system that serves a purpose. Behaviour as
such does not appear to require for its explanation any
principles additional to these."

Roughly speaking Gray's statement is

Biology = Physics + Feedback mechanisms

Yet even at this stage (just at a level of bacteria, I guess
there is no qualia yet) it is unclear to me whether physics
includes cybernetics laws or they emerge/supervene. What is
your opinion to this end?

What are "cybernetics laws"? Can they be written down like the
Standard Model Lagrangian or Einstein's equation?

Basically the cybernetics laws describe a feedback. Let us for a
example consider a PID controller to keep the temperature constant
in a thermostat. What is the relationship between the equations
implemented in the controller and physics laws? Do these equations
 emerge from or supervene to the physics laws?

The equations describe the 'boundary conditions' as well as the
physical laws. For example Kirchoff's law just says current is
conserved in electrical circuits, but to use this law in an equation
describing the function of some circuit the equations must also
describe the configuration of the circuit.

I think that there is some difference in respect that one can abstract control from a particular application. For example, I can consider a PID controller as such. Such a consideration belongs, roughly speaking, to cybernetics laws.




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