On 03 Oct 2012, at 13:05, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Bruno Marchal

Responses at ======

Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
10/3/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen



I think so (except perhaps on Jesus, but we can come back on this later ... I don't think it is so important, now)

========== There's no Jesus in Leibniz's metaphysics, just the monad of monads (the ALL, or "God"),

OK.




BRUNO: Perhaps I should interpret your monad by person, simply. Or
generalized person.

************* No, each person has his own monad, his own corporeal body.
They're all different.


BRUNO: The Universal Soul, the Inner God, the Knower can leave their bodies (in comp).

===========  I have no good answer, but let me speculate a little.
L says that monads can commune  with the supreme monad
(which you call Universal Soul or US). Then there is no reason, depending on one's clarity of vision, why a monad could not see as the US sees, at least to some extent. This might be an OBE. Religionists might call this communing a mystical vision.
Luther was not too keen on mysticism, would call it glory-seeking.
Hence I am not either.

Hmm... Not a too much cool point for Luther, perhaps. Not sure.

My (computer's scientist) conception of religion is purely mystical. Now, the ideally correct mystical machine remains completely mute, and get wrong once she talk about such experience, as they are typically not communicable, and so I can understand why we might not be to keen with *chatting* mystics. Literally speaking, for the ideal machine, no one can even mention the "big things", unless doing so in a context of a theory (and thus only in an interrogative stance).

Now I think that our alignment comes from the fact that your monad resemble a lot to the programs (or engram, when they emerges from evolution or other long computations process). The supreme monad is then the universal program/number/machine. But those are not really Gods. Men are universal numbers. Only windows for "God", which in comp is better played by the "whole arithmetical truth (universal numbers plays only with a restricted part of it).

Bruno





BRUNO (previously) I am not sure. For two reasons:


1) with comp it seems that there is a universal person, abstract, perhaps, but completely conscious. Like you, me, and the jumping spider.

2) most people on (good dose of) salvia divinorum, (a powerful dissociative psychedelic plant), get *completely* amnesic. They report the lost of all the memories of anything particular about them, including the memory of having once own a body, immersed in space and time. Yet, they report to remain *completely* conscious, like out of time, like out of anything (any thing).

With lesser dose, you just dissociate, that is you keep the memories,
but you don't believe or associate with them any more (for a period of 4m, the experience is short lived).


With comp (assuming no flaws, etc.) things goes like this (roughly
speaking)

ARITHMETICAL TRUTH ====> INTELLIGIBLE ARITHMETICAL REALM ===>

UNIVERSAL SOUL ====> PARTICULAR SOULS,

and then only ===> PARTICULAR DREAMS SHARING (physical realities).

******** Good. We're pretty much aligned. This has been very helpful.


BRUNO: Haha! Yes, you confirm some of my feelings, notably, to be short, that christians are, conceptually, much more closer to comp (and Plato, Plotinus, probably Leibniz, even Descartes when read by taking the context into account) than the atheists, the naturalists and the (even weak) materialists who eliminate persons, not just in books, but in their everyday life, as I am witnessing again and again. pfff...


BTW, I suggest everyone to look at Korean movies (on Youtube, you can find a lot), as their culture shows some harmonic (with nice gentle dissonances) relationship between christianity and buddhism.

By far my favorite is "Hello Ghost", which is, btw and imho, a perfect allegory of the salvia divinorum experience, including the so-called breakthrough.

It is a typical movie that you can appreciate to see twice (and don't read the YouTube comments the first time, as some some spoils the story!).


Best,


Bruno
0000000000000000000000000



http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
10/3/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

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  • OBE's etc. Roger Clough
    • Re: OBE's etc. Bruno Marchal

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