On Thursday, April 4, 2013 12:55:44 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 3:32 AM, Craig Weinberg > <[email protected]<javascript:> > > wrote: > > There are, of course, undiscovered scientific facts. If scientists did not >>> believe that they would give up science. But Craig is not saying that there >>> are processes inside cells that are controlled by as yet undiscovered >>> physical effects. What he is saying is that if I decide to move my arm the >>> arm will move not due to the well-studied sequence of neurological events, >>> but "spontaneously", due to my will. >>> >>> >> UGH. No. I say that if I move my arm, the arm will move because I AM >> whatever sequence of events on whatever level - molecular, biochemical, >> physiological, whether well-studied or not. You may not be able to >> understand that what I intend is not to squeeze myself into biology, or to >> magically replace biology, but to present that the entirety of the physics >> of my body intersects with the entirety of the physics of my experience. >> The two aesthetics - public bodies in space and private experiences through >> time, are an involuted (Ouroboran, umbilical, involuted) Monism. If you >> don't understand what that means then you are arguing with a straw man. >> > > If you ARE the sequence of neurological events and the neurological events > follow deterministic or probabilistic rules then you will also follow > deterministic or probabilistic rules. >
That's a tautology. If I move my arm, then I am causing improbable neurological events to occur. Muscles, cells, molecules follow my intention rather than their own. The cells are not causing my arm to move - if they were, that would be a spasm. > However, you don't believe that this is the case. So sometimes there must > be neurological events which are "spontaneous" according to your definition > - outside the normal causal chain. > Spontaneous *IS* the normal causality. It isn't a 'chain'. The entire body and brain serve a single purpose - to support a particular quality of participatory experience. If it is not doing that, then the person is dead or in a coma. Unconsciousness is your causal chain. Consciousness is intentional self-modification of causality itself. > Absent this, you return to the default scientific position. > The default scientific position is that particles decay after a "random" duration (i.e. spontaneous), making each event in the cosmos subject to non-deterministic and unique outcomes. Determinism is an approximate view from a great distance. This is what Multisense Realism specifically suggests: Perceptual relativity based on sense attenuation as the sole universal principle. Craig > > -- > Stathis Papaioannou > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
