On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 03:51:45PM -0400, John Mikes wrote: > Russell wrote: > > *One of the reasons for studying AL is to get a better handle on what > we mean by "life". Obviously it has something to do with information > processing, emergent phenomena, complex systems and evolution, so all > these topics come under scrutiny. > > I don't think it is as quite a hopeless question as what is > consciousness (or even what is pornography!), but it is still a > difficult beast, and one that will take a few generations more of > scientists before there can be some agreement.* > * > * > I tried to cut out the *sequence*: "first make it artificial THEN get a > handle of what it is". The 'artificial' thought product may not represent > the unknown original. >
That doesn't matter. But the process of attempting to build it is bound to refine what we do mean by life. > Then again *'information'* needs better "information" about its > meaning Information is quite a well defined term in information theory. > and > in my vocabulary 'emergent' means something apparent without our knwoledge > HOW it came about. Once we learned the circumstances of occurrence it is no > 'emergent' anymore: it is a product. > That is Ronald's "surprise" test for emergence. I respectfully disagree. > *Evolution* is misunderstood in my agnostic view: if it DOES aim at some > state it is teleological and leads to a God Almighty, the 'know-all > creator' letting the system play astray-mutations to get there. I don't think evolution is teleological. I'm surprised you do. > *Complex > 'systems'* is an oxymoron, if it is 'complex' it is not a 'system' (=fixed > inventory and processing) - it may be an open, unlimited > organization/network. A universal machine does not have a fixed inventory, and I think it definitely counts as a system. > I agree with your 'scrutiny' for all the topics. Hence my question. > > *Conciousness* is different: I found quite different aspects (contents?) to > handle the term according to the 'scientist' using it. I boiled it down to > SOME process, (1992) and identify it as 'response to relations' in the most > general sense <everything list>.. > (Pornography is different: it is a purely(?) human artifact.) Of course. But then probably so are the other concepts :). > Finally: I would not leave such questions in the hands of (conventional?) > scientists, they are bound to yesterday's knowledge base. > I'll let John Clark respond to this, I think :). > Thanks for reflecting > > John M > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Russell Standish > <li...@hpcoders.com.au>wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 05:42:45PM -0400, John Mikes wrote: > > > Dear Russell, > > > based on my 2-decade long reading of your posts I have a question, if you > > > don't mind: > > > I guess you are still interested in AL, so "L" is includable. > > > What is " L I F E " in your view? > > > > One of the reasons for studying AL is to get a better handle on what > > we mean by "life". Obviously it has something to do with information > > processing, emergent phenomena, complex systems and evolution, so all > > these topics come under scrutiny. > > > > I don't think it is as quite a hopeless question as what is > > consciousness (or even what is pornography!), but it is still a > > difficult beast, and one that will take a few generations more of > > scientists before there can be some agreement. > > > > > you said: biocomplexity, > > > > > > This doesn't sound like me... :( Context? > > > > what raises the > > > question in my mind: wat is that "bio" we know so little about, but speak > > > so much about? I am all for complexity - the infinite one beyond our > > > 'model' we live in and by, of which we have but precious little > > information > > > beyond that model. > > > So do you have a restriction of complexities we should call life? > > > (Then we may try to identify how to reproduce such artificially. Maybe a > > > lot more difficult than identifying AI without a clear definition of > > "I"). > > > > > > John Mikes > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Everything List" group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > -- > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) > > Principal, High Performance Coders > > Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au > > University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Everything List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Principal, High Performance Coders Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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