On 07 Nov 2013, at 00:06, meekerdb wrote:

On 11/6/2013 2:35 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 06 Nov 2013, at 17:26, meekerdb wrote:

On 11/6/2013 1:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Our bodies are both, I would say. But we are not our bodies, we are our values, ideas, memories, etc.

But evolution implies that those are not independent of our bodies.

Locally. Relatively. Yes. Like this post depends on my computer's body right now. I agree.

"Globally", or theologically, it is more complex. Bodies, like orbitals, are map of accessible consistent extensions, and things are rich and complex, especially if you are open to the idea of conscious universal person, perhaps related to the universal numbers, or the Löbian one.

Platonists believes in truth, beauty, justice, ... and computationalist knows that those are like real family, full of tension and contradictions, which in a sense makes them alive, and almost recognizable from lives to lives.
Our bodies can be the vehicle of ideas which transcends them.

That fuzzes up the point that evolution accounts for our feelings of love, fairness, empathy, curiosity, xenophobia, etc. Whereas Platonism just "believes in them" and provides no explanatory account.

It seems to me that they do. Plotinus provides better explanation than Plato, and comp gives an utterly simple and clean interpretation of Plotinus, which is testable. And this can explain the appearance of "material information", and eventualy of evolution itself. Yet, we cannot start from nothing, we have to share at least one notion of "thing" to start the inquiry, and with computationalism, any finite elements with laws making them (Turing) universal can be used. Where does that come from remains a mystery, but that can be explained too. Of course I can add that Aristotelian takes the material reality for granted, and provides no explanatory account of it, nor of the link with the mind, etc. (beside being epistemologically inconsistent with computationalism, as I argue often).



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