On 07 Nov 2013, at 00:06, meekerdb wrote:
On 11/6/2013 2:35 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 06 Nov 2013, at 17:26, meekerdb wrote:
On 11/6/2013 1:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Our bodies are both, I would say. But we are not our bodies, we
are our values, ideas, memories, etc.
But evolution implies that those are not independent of our bodies.
Locally. Relatively. Yes. Like this post depends on my computer's
body right now. I agree.
"Globally", or theologically, it is more complex. Bodies, like
orbitals, are map of accessible consistent extensions, and things
are rich and complex, especially if you are open to the idea of
conscious universal person, perhaps related to the universal
numbers, or the Löbian one.
Platonists believes in truth, beauty, justice, ... and
computationalist knows that those are like real family, full of
tension and contradictions, which in a sense makes them alive, and
almost recognizable from lives to lives.
Our bodies can be the vehicle of ideas which transcends them.
That fuzzes up the point that evolution accounts for our feelings of
love, fairness, empathy, curiosity, xenophobia, etc. Whereas
Platonism just "believes in them" and provides no explanatory account.
It seems to me that they do. Plotinus provides better explanation than
Plato, and comp gives an utterly simple and clean interpretation of
Plotinus, which is testable. And this can explain the appearance of
"material information", and eventualy of evolution itself. Yet, we
cannot start from nothing, we have to share at least one notion of
"thing" to start the inquiry, and with computationalism, any finite
elements with laws making them (Turing) universal can be used. Where
does that come from remains a mystery, but that can be explained too.
Of course I can add that Aristotelian takes the material reality for
granted, and provides no explanatory account of it, nor of the link
with the mind, etc. (beside being epistemologically inconsistent with
computationalism, as I argue often).
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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