On 1/26/2014 11:32 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Brent,
There is no confusion.
Sure, that's just the standard kiddy book diagram of a black hole with which everyone
agrees (except Jesse Mazur who thinks nothing actually enters a black hole but instead
piles up on the event horizon boundary - see his posts).
I saw his posts and he quite correctly said that objects *appear* to pile up on the
horizon as they red shift to invisibility.
But that doesn't address the point of my question.
What "is in there and has to come out" is the gravitational effect of the mass that
falls in which was the point of my question and my answer.
But that's a nonsense answer to asking the wrong question. If you're an observer several
Scharzshild radii from a ten solar mass star and it collapses to a black hole, nothing
changes in the gravitational field at your location. No "effect" had to "come out", it
was already "out".
Brent
Edgar
On Sunday, January 26, 2014 2:22:58 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 1/26/2014 5:01 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
OK, time for THE ANSWER TO MY QUESTION of how gravity can escape from a
black hole....
Liz, Brent, and Richard,
OK, nobody got the answer so I'll explain it myself. It's pretty simple but
still
pretty profound and thought provoking....
Gravity IS what needs to be escaped. So it doesn't even make sense to ask
how
gravity could escape ITSELF.
There wouldn't even be a black hole if gravity hadn't already escaped the
black
hole to create its gravitational effect.
So what this means is that gravity is the only thing than CAN escape a
black hole
because it is gravity itself that creates the gravitational field that must
be escaped!
Thus gravity, and only gravity, can manifest freely OUTSIDE a black hole the
effects of its INSIDE mass.
Thus gravity is the only thing that freely COMES OUT of a black hole
through the
event horizon, because what stops everything else from coming out is gravity
itself. But obviously gravity can't stop itself from coming out through the
event
horizon, because only its already manifesting presence is what stops
everything
else from coming out through the event horizon, but it already must have
come out
to stop everything else from coming out...
Thus before gravity comes out through the event horizon, there is nothing
to stop
anything from coming out. Thus gravity can freely emerge through the event
horizon
and only by doing so is it able to prevent anything else from coming out....
Hope I'm explaining this clearly?
Yes, it's clear that you're confused. You think there's "something in
there" that
has to "come out" and pull stuff in. Here's a more accurate picture from
Lawrence
Crowell:
Think of a river with a water fall. You row your canoe at a constant
speed, which
mimics the speed of light. The flow of water increases as it approaches the falls.
There is then a boundary of no return where once you cross it you can’t row faster
than the flow rate of the water. You are inexorably going to reach the
falls. A
black hole is similar to that. The flow of space as it evolves by the
diffeomorphism of general relativity is such that at the horizon that flow
exceeds
the speed of light.
Brent
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