2014-03-26 7:13 GMT+01:00 meekerdb <[email protected]>: > On 3/25/2014 9:57 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On 26 Mar 2014, at 1:56 pm, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 3/25/2014 6:57 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > > On 26 March 2014 12:55, LizR <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 26 March 2014 14:50, Stathis Papaioannou <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On 26 March 2014 12:45, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> On 3/25/2014 6:34 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On 26 March 2014 12:15, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> An infinite universe (Tegmark type 1) implies that our >>>>>> consciousness flits about from one copy of us to another and that as a >>>>>> consequence we are immortal, so it does affect us even if there is no >>>>>> physical communication between its distant parts. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That seems to imply that one's consciousness is unique and moves >>>>> around like a soul. >>>>> >>>> >>>> There's no dodgy metaphysical mechanism involved. If there are >>>> multiple physical copies of you, and each copy has a similar consciousness >>>> to you, then you can't know which copy is currently generating your >>>> consciousness. >>>> >>>> >>>>> I think the idea is that the "stream of consciousness" is unified so >>>>> long as all the copies are being realized identically, in fact they are >>>>> not >>>>> "multiple" per Leibniz's identity of indiscernibles. When there is some >>>>> quantum event amplified enough to make a difference in the stream of >>>>> consciousness then the stream divides and there are two (or more) streams. >>>>> >>>> >>>> An implication of this is that if one of the streams terminates your >>>> consciousness will continue in the other. >>>> >>>> >>>> But it will, at best be *similar* to the deceased "you", just as I am >>>> quite different from Brent Meeker of 50yrs ago. And there is no quarantee >>>> that some stream will continue. >>>> >>> >>> Similar is good enough. There is a guarantee that some branch will >>> continue if everything that can happen does happen. >>> >>> Surely in an infinite universe, and assuming the identity of quantum >> states, you don't need similarity - you will get a quantum state that is a >> follow-on from your previous one, but in which you continue to be alive... >> >> Of course this depends on what it means for quantum states to follow on >> from other ones. But our brains already seem to "know" what that means, in >> that we feel we're the same person we were this morning, and so we feel >> continuity of "similar enough" quantum states. Unless QM is wrong about the >> nature of quantum states, we will feel continuity if the "follow on" state >> is actually 10 ^ 10 ^ 100 light years away (or 10 ^ 10 ^ 100 years away) >> from the preceeding state. >> > > I agree but I don't think you need to refer to QM at all. The conclusion > would still follow in a classical infinite universe. > > > Probably not since classical physics is based on real numbers (and so is > quantum mechanics for that matter). Of course you could still fall back on > "similar enough". But in that case you will, as you are dying, pass into a > state of consciousness (i.e. none) that is "similar enough" to a fetus (of > some animal) or maybe a cabbage. > > > You don't need an *exact* copy, just a good enough copy. If an exact copy > were needed, either at the quantum level or to an infinite number of > decimal places, then we could not survive from one moment to the next, > since in a very small period there are quite gross physical changes in our > bodies. > > > > My point exactly - We DON'T survive moment to moment >
Maybe you don't, but I surely do... saying consciousness or your identity is an illusion is just playing with words. Quentin > except in rough approximation and so as we deteriorate in old age we may > come to approximate topsoil. The question is, why should conscious > continuity preserve "us" while physical continuity doesn't count? Is it > just our ego that says consciouness should be preserved - no matter how > much it changes? > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy Batty/Rutger Hauer) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
