On Wednesday, April 2, 2014 11:10:18 PM UTC+1, Liz R wrote: > > On 3 April 2014 10:55, <ghi...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote: > >> >> On Monday, March 31, 2014 6:41:55 AM UTC+1, Liz R wrote: >>> >>> I'm not sure collapse is an observed fact. Collapse is an assumption >>> which explains how we come to measure discrete values. >>> >> >> Would mind helping me place your meaning in terms of mine Liz? >> , >> Say, if we imagine a process of stripping back the meaning of >> 'wave-function' based on the single goal only, of finding the common ground >> starting point, least open to different - likely mis-conception, very >> likely my side. >> >> On that basis, my stripped back wave-function is the pattern made on the >> in the two slit experiment, by all those particles coming through, where >> each one hits. Purely on that temporary definition alone, would we be on >> common ground (a) so far as it goes - given the goal - it's a legitimate >> definition (b) the wave function is an observed fact, and so is its >> collapse? . >> > > My take on this is that the wave function is what is assumed to explain > the interference pattern formed by the particles, and collapse is what is > assumed, in the Copenhagen view, to explain why the pattern is made up of > individual pointlike events. The Bohm and MWI (and probably the > time-symmetry) views make different assumptions to explain this seemingly > counter-intuitive result. > > Hence the observed fact is that an interference pattern builds up from > many discrete events, and several hypotheses have been put forward to > explain this, wavefunction collapse being one of them > I've no criticism of that, save subjective that I still can't nail the common ground. Given that on the terms of 'temporarily stripping back' the way I said, doesn't have to satisfy the way you just said, beyond the minimal standard of being, alright as a gross simplification? I mean, it's reasonable a gross simplification would merge a distinction between the pattern on the backscreen and the nature intrinsic to the pattern itself, and the ultimate cause of that, to "the pattern on the backscreen representing the impact points of particles" or isn't it? If it isn't, then we can simplify back further, and just call the 'pattern on the backscreen'. We can simplify the 'collapse' back further and call that "the pattern disappears". I'm not taking the piss Liz...it will help me to see a concrete common ground component of what is an experimentally observed fact. It's fine if you don't think that's the issue...it might not be in the end, but if we can agree on something that is an observed fact, we can probably use that to work out, how gross a simplification you think it is, vs I think it is. As things stand, the apparent indication all considered is that you think it's a simplification far greater and grosser than I think it is :O)
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