I seem to recall some mathematical / logical proof that no system of govt is going to work all the time, but the details are a bit vague now. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
I mean in this particular case, obviously. In general I'm a model of clarity (insert eye-rolling emoticon here). On 6 June 2014 08:47, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote: > Brent: > you venture into closing in on *'democracy*': Indeed it is impossible, no > system can involve EVERYBODY's interest/taste/choice/whatever into ONE > system (*Cratos* of the *entire* *Demos*?) so we think of a watered-down > variant: a MAJORITY rule which implies the suppression of a MINORITY (if > the figures are right - otherwise it goes for the rule of a minority). > Example: how many votes did Morsi get for his 'democratic' election from > the 35 millon srong Egyptian voter population? > Is it a numbers' game indeed? > John M > > > On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:20 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > >> On 6/4/2014 3:43 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 10:23 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: >> >>> On 6/3/2014 9:35 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >>> >>> That is the great flaw of constitutional systems based on "paper" >>>> formulas and automatic mechanisms. >>>> >>>> without that unenforceable set of values and compromises, a >>>> constitutional system can derive to anything bad. >>>> >>> >>> I mostly agree. In fact, I would argue that the hypothetical >>> effectiveness of the constitution as a vaccine against tyranny has already >>> been empirically falsified in the USA. >>> >>> >>> The effectiveness, as the effectiveness of laws in general, has always >>> depended on the recognition and acceptance by the populace. You, and Godel >>> and other critics, represent a corrosive influence on that acceptance. As >>> people who object to one or another government action (e.g. Clive Bundy, >>> Citizens United, EPA regulations) invoke the Constitution as prohibiting >>> that action and the government as violating the Constitution more and >>> more political activists are encouraged to claim the government is >>> illegitimate. If enough people *think* the government is illegimate, >>> however meritless and diverse their claims may be, then in effect it does >>> become illegitimate and society devolves toward rule by power: oligarchy or >>> police state. >>> >> >> The "recognition and acceptance" by the populace implies that there is >> the option of "non-recognition and rejection". So a government becomes >> legitimate because the majority of the people choose the former. I think we >> can agree on this. But then you say that the people who choose >> "non-recognition and rejection" are a corrosive influence that leads to >> oligarchies or police states. So there was no choice to begin with, except >> for a choice between what you consider ethical or unethical behaviour. This >> is circular: the government is ethical because it is legitimised by a >> choice of the majority, and you should choose to accept the government >> because not doing so harms the government, which is ethical because... etc. >> >> >> It's not circular, it's democracy. If you convince a majority that the >> government is wrong then it ethical to overthrow it. >> >> Brent >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
