On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 6:23 AM, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 10:05 PM, Terren Suydam <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 7:30 AM, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Although my POV is aligned with the latter intuition, I actually agree >>>> with the former, but consider the kinds of threats involved to be bounded >>>> in ways we can in principle control. Although in practice it is possible >>>> for them to do damage so quickly we can't prevent it. >>>> >>>> Perhaps my idea of intelligence is too limited. I am assuming that >>>> something capable of being a real threat will be able to generate its own >>>> ontologies, creatively model them in ways that build on and relate to >>>> existing ontologies, simulate and test those new models, etc., generate >>>> value judgments using these new models with respect to overarching utility >>>> function(s). It is suspiciously similar to human intelligence. >>>> >>> >>> I wonder. What you describe seems like the way of thinking of a person >>> trained in the scientific method (a very recent discovery in human >>> history). Is this raw human intelligence? I suspect raw human intelligence >>> is more like a kludge. It is possible to create rickety structures of order >>> on top of that kludge, by a process we call "education". >>> >>> >> >> I don't mean to imply formal learning at all. I think this even applies >> to any animal that dreams during sleep (say). Modeling the world is a very >> basic function of the brain, even if the process and result is a kludge. >> With language and the ability to articulate models, humans can get very >> good indeed at making them precise and building structures, rickity or >> otherwise, upon the basic kludginess you're talking about. >> >> >>> I think something like this could do a lot of damage very quickly, but >>>> by accident... in a similar way perhaps to the occasional meltdowns caused >>>> by the collective behaviors of micro-second market-making algorithms. >>>> >>> >>> Another example is big societies designed by humans. >>> >> >> Big societies act much more slowly. But they are their own organisms, we >> don't design them anymore than our cells design us. We are not really that >> good at seeing how they operate, for the same reason we find it hard to >> perceive how a cloud changes through time. >> >> >>> >>> >>>> I find it exceedingly unlikely that an AGI will spontaneously emerge >>>> from a self-mutating process like you describe. Again, if this kind of >>>> thing were likely, or at least not extremely unlikely, I think it suggests >>>> that AGI is a lot simpler than it really is. >>>> >>> >>> This is tricky. The Kolmogorov complexity of AGI could be relatively low >>> -- maybe it can be expressed in 1000 lines of lisp. But the set of programs >>> expressible in 1000 lines of lisp includes some really crazy, >>> counter-intuitive stuff (e.g. the universal dovetailer). Genetic >>> programming has been shown to be able to discover relatively short >>> solutions that are better than anything a human could come up with, due to >>> counter-intuitiveness. >>> >> >> I suppose it is possible and maybe my estimate of how likely it is is too >> low. All the same I would be rather shocked if AGI could be implemented in >> 1000 lines of code. And no cheating - each line has to be less than 80 >> chars ;-) Bonus points if you can do it in Arnold >> <https://github.com/lhartikk/ArnoldC>. >> > > Arnold is excellent! :) > I raise you Piet: > http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet.html > > Wow, Piet is awesome, so creative - thanks for the link! However, it's probably not the best for color-blind folks like myself. Terren -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
