Zipsey, If you care to understand how black communicate with each other, read http://arxiv.org/pdf/1308.0289v1.pdf. clem
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 4:46 PM, <zibb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Saturday, November 15, 2014 9:36:57 PM UTC, zib...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, November 15, 2014 4:57:14 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 5:23 PM, meekerdb <meek...@verizon.net> wrote: >>> >>> > "The numbers of ways the system could have gotten to the way it is" >>>> isn't the usual formulation >>> >>> >>> If you want to say that Entropy is proportional to the number of >>> microstates that produce the same macrostate then it's also proportional to >>> the number of precursor states. >>> >>> > and I think it's ambiguous. In general there are arbitrarily many >>>> possible histories and different possible starting points. >>>> >>> >>> Unless you're talking about hypothetical new physics there are not >>> arbitrarily many previous states that could have produced the present >>> state, just a astronomical number. >>> >>> > Boltzmann's formulation was the logarithm of the numbers of possible >>>> states consistent with constraints defining the system, e.g. its total >>>> kinetic energy >>>> >>> >>> Entropy is inversely proportional to work not kinetic energy. A box of >>> gas may have a lot of kinetic energy because all the atoms in it are moving >>> around at high speed, but they're all moving in different directions, >>> Entropy is a measure of how well all that activity can be translated into >>> moving something in just one direction (work). The higher the Entropy the >>> less work you can get out of it with the same heat sink >>> >>> > In the case of a BH the constraints are its classical defining >>>> parameters: mass, angular momentum, and electric charge. >>>> >>> >>> Yes, a Black Hole is the simplest macroscopic thing in the universe, >>> just 3 numbers tells you all there is to know about a particular one; but >>> there are a gargantuan number of ways that Black Hole could have formed, >>> perhaps it was made by putting a lot of sand together in one place, or >>> encyclopedias or too many puppy dogs, it doesn't matter. And that's why >>> Black Holes have such a enormous Entropy. >>> >> >> Would you help me to understand this? >> >> It's just that I'm seeing the number of ways a black hole could have >> formed as a non-physical conception that depends ....some kind of >> information deficit across the event horizon. >> >> Like, if I have special information...like maybe a theory....that >> eliminates 50 percent of the ways a specific black hole could have formed, >> by some process of elimination. The entropy should now physically read half >> what it did to start with. >> > > Isn't this an approach on what Susskind contributes as the holographic > principle (or as what then leads to that) > > Along with the time invariant term in that equation...that has the outside > observer see the falling man freeze at the event horizon as a badly mangled > splodge of subatomic fragmentation. > > That then acts as the informational record of everything that goes inside. > Which makes Hawking look like a right plum circa 1985 > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> John K Clark >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Classically there is no finer grained description, so that's what seems >>> to make BH entropy more fundamental that the usual thermodynamic system. >>> >>>> >>>> Brent >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
