Zipsey, If you care to understand how black communicate with each other, read http://arxiv.org/pdf/1308.0289v1.pdf. clem
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 4:46 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Saturday, November 15, 2014 9:36:57 PM UTC, [email protected] wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, November 15, 2014 4:57:14 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 5:23 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> > "The numbers of ways the system could have gotten to the way it is" >>>> isn't the usual formulation >>> >>> >>> If you want to say that Entropy is proportional to the number of >>> microstates that produce the same macrostate then it's also proportional to >>> the number of precursor states. >>> >>> > and I think it's ambiguous. In general there are arbitrarily many >>>> possible histories and different possible starting points. >>>> >>> >>> Unless you're talking about hypothetical new physics there are not >>> arbitrarily many previous states that could have produced the present >>> state, just a astronomical number. >>> >>> > Boltzmann's formulation was the logarithm of the numbers of possible >>>> states consistent with constraints defining the system, e.g. its total >>>> kinetic energy >>>> >>> >>> Entropy is inversely proportional to work not kinetic energy. A box of >>> gas may have a lot of kinetic energy because all the atoms in it are moving >>> around at high speed, but they're all moving in different directions, >>> Entropy is a measure of how well all that activity can be translated into >>> moving something in just one direction (work). The higher the Entropy the >>> less work you can get out of it with the same heat sink >>> >>> > In the case of a BH the constraints are its classical defining >>>> parameters: mass, angular momentum, and electric charge. >>>> >>> >>> Yes, a Black Hole is the simplest macroscopic thing in the universe, >>> just 3 numbers tells you all there is to know about a particular one; but >>> there are a gargantuan number of ways that Black Hole could have formed, >>> perhaps it was made by putting a lot of sand together in one place, or >>> encyclopedias or too many puppy dogs, it doesn't matter. And that's why >>> Black Holes have such a enormous Entropy. >>> >> >> Would you help me to understand this? >> >> It's just that I'm seeing the number of ways a black hole could have >> formed as a non-physical conception that depends ....some kind of >> information deficit across the event horizon. >> >> Like, if I have special information...like maybe a theory....that >> eliminates 50 percent of the ways a specific black hole could have formed, >> by some process of elimination. The entropy should now physically read half >> what it did to start with. >> > > Isn't this an approach on what Susskind contributes as the holographic > principle (or as what then leads to that) > > Along with the time invariant term in that equation...that has the outside > observer see the falling man freeze at the event horizon as a badly mangled > splodge of subatomic fragmentation. > > That then acts as the informational record of everything that goes inside. > Which makes Hawking look like a right plum circa 1985 > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> John K Clark >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Classically there is no finer grained description, so that's what seems >>> to make BH entropy more fundamental that the usual thermodynamic system. >>> >>>> >>>> Brent >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
