On 21 Nov 2014, at 13:02, [email protected] wrote:
On Monday, November 17, 2014 11:49:06 AM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 16 Nov 2014, at 20:32, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
wrote:
Interesting speculative physics… that makes claims that parallel
worlds may be testable.
“A new theory, proposed by Howard Wiseman, Director of the Centre
of Quantum Dynamics at Griffith University, is different. No new
universes are ever created. Instead many worlds have existed, side-
by-side, since the beginning of time. “
Well, to be sure, this is how Deutsch interprets Everett. Me too,
even for computationalism, where I sum up this by the Y = II rule.
The mutiplication (Y) in the future duplicate the past (Y becomes
II).
I once asked you if you shared Deutsch's interpretation of the MWI
in terms of fungible worlds divergent by decoherance,
Yes. More simply by entanglement.
but otherwise invariant in all dimensions a frozen structure, every
thing that ever has, and ever will, ever can occur, frozen in little
multidimensional capsule.
I agree with this assuming computationalism and QM, but if
computationalism is correct, the frozen structure is the arithmetical
reality, and the SWE must be derived. deustch like some other Many-
worlders still assume some physicalism which cannot fit with the idea
that the brain works like a machine.
You said you didn't, you saw it differently. I forget precisely what
and how. Have you changed your mind at a point between?
Could you find the quote?
What was the crucial shift that fundamentally changed the picture
for you?
I don't see what you are talking about. I might say different thing
according to the fact that the thread assumes QM or not.
Perhaps you are now closely enough aligned with him that you will
answer the question that he will not despite many times my asking.
Deutsch explains in BoI chapter "The Reality of Abstractions" that
abstractions have physical reality
This for me is total non sense.
independent of dependence of emergent features from underlying,
increasingly physical layers
The physical emerges from what I take as very concrete: numbers, or
combinators. Things like that, which are not physical. The physical is
an approximation of a sum on all computations. I can give reference on
this if you ask.
So, given independence, that is causal isolation, what is the
physical mechanism by which decoherence at the quantum level, will
trigger divergence, and divergence will replicate abstract layers
that are independent of quantum forces?
With QM, the divergence comes from the existence of the superposition
state. Suppose that I isolate a particle with infinite position
precision. Then if a measure the momentum, I will differentiate into
an infinity of "obesring this momentum" or this one, or this one, etc.
Or if you prefer imagine that I prepare a particle with s_x = up+down,
then if I measure it in the up-down base, I will diverge into seeing
it up, and seeing it down. You need a minimal from of the FPI, applied
to superposition.
How does that happen? And if it doesn't happen precisely every
single time, how can macroscopic reality be stable? Cause and effect
would never endure
With QM, I don't see that, but with comp I gave a technical clue why
it works.
Second challenge: If the two slit experiment is explained by
divergent universes,
then the pattern we see in the interval of 'collapse' is therefore
the momentary isolation of just this universe as all the others
diverge.
Which means it should be distinctive in its own right, from what we
shall see as the pattern in 'one slit' experiment.
Is it? I shall bet it is indistinguishable.
Then, is the one slit experiment isolating this universe in some way?
To get the interference, you need to isolate the particle so that its
superposition state does not contagiate the universe, nor the room and
you in the room. But it is just first person differentiation.
Bruno
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