From: meekerdb
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 11:06 AM.
On 12/18/2014 10:16 AM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jason Resch
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 12:25 AM
On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 6:07 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote:
On 12/16/2014 10:15 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
Hi Liz,
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 7:51 PM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote:
What is funny - as well as sad and frightening - is the number of people here
who apparently don't believe in democracy, even in principle. Democracy is the
idea that we can elect people to do things for everyone else (the NHS,
conservation, social security, infrastructure, regulations, police, army
science etc etc).
All of the things you mention are run by unelected bureaucrats with long
careers, who see politicians come and go.
I highly recommend the British show "Yes, Prime Minister!" to learn about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmXzGI0XP7M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeF_o1Ss1NQ
Yet all I can see here is people saying that it doesn't work. I think the truth
is that it can be hijacked and THEN it doesn't work. The NHS (despite
everything) was one of the greatest achievements of the 20th century, after
all. And it was introduced by a government because of its beliefs and
principles.
The NHS is the sort of thing that should worry an Ecologist, because it's based
on infinite growth. Both the European system (based on infinite demographic
growth) and the Anglo (based on infinite economic growth). I also feel that it
serves mostly to fix a problem created by the government itself in a previous
regulatory wave. The barriers to competition in the practice of healthcare are
so high that it becomes unaffordable without insurance or subsidy.
Health care isn't well regulated by competition because the consumer is ill
equipped to judge the necessity or the quality of service and the most
expensive service tends to a one-time event for the consumer.
Worse, the healthcare industry has gotten the US government to pass laws making
it exempt from monopolistic practices, price fixing, charging people different
amounts for the same service, forbidding reimportation of medicine, restricting
the number of MRI machines in a given area. It's what leads to people being
charged $60,000 for two bottles of anti-venom that cost $200, or be charged
$9,000 for a few stiches in a finger. (these are real life examples
<http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=229605> and not exaggerations).
Experimental clinics like The Surgery Center of Oklahoma, which cut out
insurance companies, and publishes their prices are 5-10X cheaper
<http://reason.com/reasontv/2012/11/15/the-obamacare-revolt-oklahoma-doctors-fi>
than what other hospitals charge (and about equivalent to prices charged in
Japan and India). If medical costs were this cheap, many people wouldn't need
insurance to pay for all but the most catastrophic of illnesses.
If hospitals were required to adhere to the same anti-trust rules as any other
business, to publish their prices and charge the same amount to everyone, we
would see about 80% of the cost of healthcare evaporate overnight. It's a sad
state of affairs when for every doctor in the country there are two people
working in the medical insurance industry.
I agree with that statement. It is not just hospitals but the monopolies that
have also been established on the practice of medicine and dentistry. Why do
the American Medical Association (AMA), and American Dental Association (ADA) –
both private (government sanctioned and enforced) guilds or trade organizations
have such power and control over who can practice medicine; over how medicine
can be practiced?
>>Because when they didn't anybody could hang out a shingle and claim to be
>>doctor and there were quacks everywhere pushing patent medicine and bleeding
>>people (literally).
Sure… but how does that justify giving a guild – e.g. the AMA – a monopoly over
the issue of licenses to practice medicine? Why not a state body for example.
Why a monopoly private trade association?
MDs in the US make on average twice as much money as MDs in other OECD
countries – such as Germany -- for example.
In Germany, as I understand it, insurance companies bid to insure classes of
workers and they then negotiate to control doctors fees. Most of the OECD
countries directly regulate or pay health care fees. Of all the OECD countries
the U.S. has the most free-market system, and the most expensive health care.
It shows the fallacy of the libertarian dream. When everyone pursues
self-interest the winners will be those who form coalitions whose objective is
to eliminate other coalitions.
The US system likes to bill itself as being free market, but it is in fact
rather more of a crony capitalist system run by and for the powerful vested
interests. Our health care system is a perfect example of just how inefficient
and expensive crony capitalism really is.
Just because it is called free market doesn’t mean it actually bears any actual
resemblance to an actual free market. The US economy is an oligopoly where
access to the market is highly controlled and regulated – invariably to
protect, favor and benefit the vested interests. The Walton heirs net worth is
an example of the social fabric trickle down “free market” policies have
actually resulted in. Since 1983, their net worth has increased a staggering
6,700 percent; in 2013, the Walton family's net worth was $144.7 billion.
-Chris
Brent
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