From: Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2014 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: real A.I.
I dont think that democracy can clear the bastardized things that she himself
generates. Au contraire, Democracy legitimate them in a more perverse way
>>It is not the same to live under your Lord as Lord that to live under your
>>"representants" "democratically" chosen. It is not the same to be opressed by
>>someone recognizable as a concrete person against which you can at least
>>fight coaligated with others than to live oppressed by an impersonal
>>burocratic structure where you don´t know who decides what. and therefore do
>>not know who to fight against. It is not the same for a Lord that he is
>>responsible of what happens in the face of the people than a democratic lord
>>whose responsibility is diffuminated in a network of power so that no one
>>accept any final responsibility.
You fall into the error of conflating the system of aristocratic rule -- e.g.
the ancien regime -- with specific identifiable persons who filled roles in
this system. Killing the king would do nothing to end the system of aristocracy
that the king represented. Aristocracy is as faceless and impersonal as any
other system. It is not the faces that come and go in the corridors of power --
of any system -- that matters; it is the nature of the system itself that is
germane.
>>It is not the same to be a Lord whose children will inherit the political
>>power or else will be killed depending on the scrutiny of society than to be
>>the member of a opaque network that exploit the state for the benefit of the
>>political caste system.
A lord can be killed... and so what, another Lord takes their place. What,
exactly has changed? Nothing. The aristocracy never did depend on the health
and well being of any given ruler or even dynasty of rulers. Rulers came and
went, states rose and fell and dynasties arose and disappeared -- the system
itself is a very different animal than the individual animals who occupied
positions of power within these systems.
>> Definitively, the democratic legitimation permits a more perfect tyranny,
>> where no one know for sure who has the power. The are not by no means the
>> ones that change power every four years, but a permanent power structure
>> that control the mass media and the "democratic representants"
The *system* of aristocratic rule was itself a permanent power structure (and
still is in many parts of the world), until the Age of Enlightenment. It was a
system just as much as democracy is a system.-Chris
2014-12-19 13:42 GMT+01:00 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>:
On 18 Dec 2014, at 14:45, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
Probably the only natural government, the one that does not need an ideological
legitimation, is the feudal system. And all the rest tend to reproduce it in a
bastardized way.
I would say that democracy reproduce it, but with some hope of changing the
bastard things when they come up.
That means that wathever the formal gobernment, the human nature tend towards a
feudal system of loyalities, towards persons and families rather than a
loyality to depersonalized institutions. These loyalities can help or cans
subvert the formal ldemocratic regime.
That is why the democratic regimes need a form of cult to the founders of the
democracy, or else, a monarchy that embodies the loyalities and canalize that
loyality from the king to the democratic regime sanctioned by him. For the same
reason, the republican democracies need the cult to some withened political
figures that symbolize their values.
That may or may not work. Some of these loyalities can destroy the formal
regime or, more frequently can corrupt or undermine it, so that the formal
system hides the real one, which makes use of the formal system for their own
purposes. Since this real regime is hidden, it adopt a form of corrupt system,
wheren the lawyers, police, media etc don´t execute what the formal law tells
but what is adequeate for the hidden loyality system.
But that is not a reason to directly implement the feudal system. democracy are
not perfect, but they are the implementation of a system which allows changes
and corrections, when it works sufficiently well. If not, it means the system
is no more democratic, and we have to start a revolution again.
Bruno
Normally this last one is the real regime that operates in every so called
"democracy"
2014-12-18 11:37 GMT+01:00 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]>:
On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 11:25 AM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote:
"Democracy is the worst system of government ever invented - apart from all the
others."
Winston Churchill
So why didn't he revolt against his own country's unelected sovereigns? The
fellow was full of contradictions:
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the
average voter."
Winston Churchill
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Alberto.
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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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