RE: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics?

Sat, 24 Jan 2015 21:08:30 -0800 

 

 

From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 8:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to 
dialectics?

 

 

The starting question is this: are you OK with the idea that we would not see 
any difference from our first person point of view with an artificial digital 
brain (copying the brain at some level of description). Putting him roughly: do 
you accept the idea that the brain is a sort of (natural) machine/computer 
(like the heart is accepted to be a natural pump)?

    While many on this list seem to believe in it, not even everyone here seems 
to buy into it.  It's one idea among many.  As I've said many times, let's all 
work our models and see what progress we can make.

All what I say is derived from the assumption that the brain or the body is 
Turing emulable at a level such that if we turing-emulate it, you would not see 
the difference subjectively. It is my working assumption.

 

 

Roger: It's possible that what we see as existing is a simulation in some other 
computer.   But, even if we are a simulation, the simulation that is us exists 
as does the computer and the code we're a simulation in.  My thinking is aimed 
at trying to figure out there are existent entities, whether we call them 
simulations, singular arithmetic computations/propositions, or whatever, 
instead of there not being existent entities.

 

Existence and non-existence can be viewed as different perspectives on 
nothing…. existence and non-existence are emergent and understood in dialectic 
opposition to each other… they arise out of each other, and are defined in 
terms of each other.

-Chris

 

--------------------------

Roger: I can accept any idea including arithmetical reality as long as there's 
more logic and evidence for it than for other ideas.  That's what I call being 
an agnostic.   I haven't seen or read anything here or elsewhere that has 
convinced me of arithmetical reality as opposed to other ideas.

You add metaphysics where there is none. Did you go out of the classroom at 
school when they mentioned the existence of the even numbers, or of the prime 
numbers?

 

 

Roger :It's unclear to me how wanting logic and evidence (mostly just evidence) 
for an idea is adding metaphysics.

 

--------------------------

 

My assumption is that there is no magic operating in the brain.

 

Roger: I'd agree that there's no magic operating in the brain or anywhere else. 
 

 

--------------------------

My goal in my thinking is to try and figure out why there are existent entities 
instead of no existent entities (e.g. the "something" versus "nothing" 
question) and to use that thinking to build a model of what the universe seems 
to look like and to hopefully make testable predictions.  Of course, I'm a long 
way from that but am working on it.  I've summarized my thinking at my website 
and at this list.   Overall, you don't believe in a primary physical universe.  
That's great, and I'm happy for you.  I do.  

 

I have never say that I don't believe in a primary physical universe. I am 
agnostic. All what I say is that IF computationalism is correct, THEN there is 
no primary physical universe (playing any role related to my consciousness, to 
be more precise (we still needs some amount of Occam to get rid of it)).

 

So, if you assume a primitive physical universe (related to our consciousness), 
then you derive from my argument that computationalism is false. There is some 
actual infinities, and non computable one, and non FPI recovrable one, playing 
in the brain. But this seems using a string ontological commitment to avoid an 
explanation. It is a bit like a creationist saying "I am OK that natural 
selection explains a lot, but let us be clear, it completely fails to explain 
how God made this in six days".

As always, we'll all take our thinking, work our models and see what progress 
can be made.    And, good luck to everyone!

 

Good luck to you too. Can you recall me you website?

 

 

Roger: I'm also agnostic on all of this.  I lean towards the idea that our 
universe is at its most fundamental level, composed of physically existent 
entities and am building a model based on it, but if someone can provide me 
with enough evidence that the computationalism or any other idea is better, I'm 
willing to switch.  I just haven't seen  that evidence here or elsewhere.  For 
me, I'd need evidence of why arithmetical propositions exist rather than not 
exist in order to change my model.  As many of us do, I feel like I have a 
solution that makes sense to me for why there are existent entities rather than 
there not being existent entities.  I base my thinking on this.  A summary is 
at:

 

https://sites.google.com/site/whydoesanythingexist/

 

and a more detailed explanation along with more philosophical stuff and a 
beginning model is at:

 

https://sites.google.com/site/ralphthewebsite/

(click on 3rd link down)

 

    While we are working on different models, it's been a great discussion.  
Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





 

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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

 

 

 

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