On 19 Jan 2015, at 23:48, 'Roger' via Everything List wrote:
Roger: Even if no mind has yet conceived the the 10^(10^(10^100))th
decimal point of pi, the pi proposition and therefore the process of
calculating its 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point and being confident
that if you do the process that that number is either 0-9 are all
located inside the mind/head. My view is that whenever we talk
about something existing, we have to specify where and when it
exists, that is, in what context or domain it exists. A thing can
exist in one place and not another. A ball can exist outside the
head, and a mental construct labeled "the concept of a ball" can
exist inside the head.
If a ball can exist outside the mind/head, why can't the
10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of pi exist outside the mind/head?
What property must a thing have to have an independent existence
outside of any mind? (according to your theory?)
Jason
So, if the pi process were carried out inside the mind/head long
enough to figure out the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point, that
mental construct for that number (which would be 0-9) would exist
inside the mind/head but not outside the mind/head. So, the mind is
able to reify things (like the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of
pi) so that they exist but so that they only exist inside the mind/
head and not outside the mind/head.
Roger: Just because things can exist outside the mind/head doesn't
mean that a specific thing does occur outside the mind/head. If
the pi proposition and the 10^(10^(10^100))th decimal point of pi
can be shown outside the mind/head or any experimental evidence for
the existence of the pi proposition or the 10^(10^(10^100))th
decimal point of pi existing outside the mind/head, I'd be happy to
accept it. I can see that a circle can exist outside the head, but
I don't see anywhere outside the mind/head, the proposition that if
you divide the circle's circumference by its diameter you get pi.
But that proposition is not in the head of anybody. A body can get a
representation of that proposition in some language (be it LISP or
neural nets, or numbers): that is usually called a sentence, and
*that* is in the head of the machine or the number. The proposition
itself is what is intended by the sentence and the universal machine
in presence. That pi is what you find by dividing the circle's
circumference by the diameter is (true by definition), and that the
sum of the inverse of all squared natural number is true, by a
proposition proved by Euler.
That is true. period. It was true before Euler proved it, and after,
although this is only a metaphor. The number are just not concept to
which time or space attribute can apply.
There is no number, nor proposition, in a brain. You might find
representations of number, and of propositions in the brain, but it
makes no sense to say that a number is in a brain, or on the planet
mars.
Then a brain itself can be described as the representation of a
universal numbers with respect to some other universal numbers.
If you accept Church-Turing thesis, all computations exists in the
elementary arithmetical reality, and in a very special redundant way,
and we are there, and we must explain why the white rabbits are so
rare and why the rabbit hole is so deep. The quantum almost solves
that problem, but to solve the mind-body problem, we must justify why
only the quantum works.
Bruno
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