On 10 Jun 2015, at 21:00, meekerdb wrote:
On 6/10/2015 1:34 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 10 Jun 2015, at 01:15, meekerdb wrote:
On 6/9/2015 11:04 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
You say that comp is useless, but what is your theory of mind.
What is not Turing emulable in the brain?
Its interaction with the universe.
Are you sure it is not the interaction with God?
Dunno, Samiya seems to the expert on what God does.
Samya did not invoke God as an explanation! Usually she (to easily)
make that understanding beyond human comprehension. (Which is true,
but might be of the type G* minus G.)
What is the need to invoke a universe when we might perhaps be on an
explanation of where the appearance of the universe, and consciousness/
knowledge come from, in a testable way?
I know that there is bad news, like some amount of math, and then a
sequence of more and more complex questions.
Can you explain why such interaction is not computable?
No, I was relying on your assertion that physics is not computable -
which would entail that brain processes are not computable,
That does not follow. Something non computable can emulate something
computable. It has too, if we want universal machine and brain there.
which would imply that comp1 is false. Except there's a loophole:
if comp1 means replacement by a physical object then the physics of
that object is not computable either and so it might work.
yes, we inherit each time the normality of our neighborhood. (I find
this a bit frightening but then God know which theory is true, isn't
it?)
With comp, it cannot be computable, as the universe, if it exists,
is not a computable notion, a priori.
Of course that may be Turing emulable too, if the universe is.
But in that case you've just emulated everything, and emulated
consciousness supervenes on emulated brains.
OK. (But then there is no problem).
There is a problem, because when everything is emulated "emulated"
becomes meaningless and you've only shown that consciousness
supervenes on brains.
?
Only the Sigma_1 truth is "emulated". The Pi_1 and Sigma_2 truth and
above are not mechanically emulable. You can define corresponding
divine being capable of emulating them, but that is not logically
necassery. yet those are well defined truth (even definable in PA)
approximating the non definable, by PA, union of all those truth.
Yes, what Gödel, Turing, Church results illustrate is that the
computable lives in a complicated relation with the non computable. In
philosophy of mind (and matter) this is doubly so due to the FPI,
which makes us confronted with infinities at the border of our Turing
emulable parts.
Bruno
Brent
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