On 28 Aug 2015, at 17:18, Mike White wrote:
Great topic Peter!
I recently worked on a film called Digital Physics in which the
protagonist, Khatchig, chases the answer to some of these questions
and I've been trying to keep following these concepts ever since. I
can't tell you exactly which one of your possibilities Khatchig
supports in his quest to prove DP but it's exactly what you're
talking about and I have a feeling the film touches on a number of
them. Cellular Automaton, Simulations, Computers, Wolfram, Fredkin,
Kolmogorov Complexity, Free Will, etc... it's all in there. Maybe
you guys can make heads or tails of the science in the movie. I'm
still trying to!
Digital physics (the idea that the universe is produced by one program
or some equivalence class of a program) ) ===> computationalism
But computationalism => the negation of digital physics (see my URL
for reference, or the post in this list).
So Digital physics ===> the negation of digital physics
So Digital physics is logically impossible.
Digital physics is an attempt to save as much as possible of Aristotle
theology in the naturalist frame, but it cannot work. We have to
backtrack on Plato.
Bruno
Agree or disagree with Khatchig's science, I thought this group
would enjoy the story and the universe it explores so I've included
the trailer below. You can also check out the film's website here...
there's a "Science Corner" page on the site has a collection of
links and videos to some of the top contributors on the topic you
might enjoy.
And if you like what you see, you can scroll to the bottom of the
website and sign up for the Mailing List. We've just been accepted
to two film festivals in October and we'll be making the film
available on VOD by the end of the year so it's a great time to
start getting updates. Thanks for your interest and thanks for
supporting Digital Physics!
https://youtu.be/Q216LjDzeJw
On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 10:01:27 AM UTC-4, stathisp wrote:
On Thursday, August 27, 2015, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote:
-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: If the universe is computational, what is the computing
platform? What are the options?
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:32:37 +1000
From: Stathis Papaioannou <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected] <everything-
[email protected]>
On 26 August 2015 at 17:21, Peter Sas <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi guys and girls,
I'm sure this question has already come up many times before, but
it's an important one, so I guess it can't do any harm to go over it
again.
If the universe is thoroughly computational, what are the
computations 'running' on? What I especially like to know is what
options are discussed in digital physics. So far I have encountered
only the following possibilities:
(1) Mathematical platonism: all natural numbers, and all mappings
between them (i.e. all algorithms), simply exist in 'Plato's
heaven', including those algorithms that compute our universe. The
simple non-spatiotemporal existence of those algorithms is enough to
'instantiate' a spatiotemporal world. This type of solution can be
found in Tipler, Tegmark and our own Bruno Marchal.
I thought Tipler's theory is that there will be an actual physical
computer that will be able to do all possible computations as the
Universe collapses - although since he came up with the idea it has
been shown that the Universe won't collapse in the required way.
Major problem: the hard problem of consciousness.
Why is the Hard Problem of Consciousness a problem in the
computerless computation scenario?
Because then it's not clear why there should be the connection
between brains and consciousness. If they are both just
computations, why do they have this tight causal relation. Why can't
the consciousness be computed independently. If it can't, if it
depends on the brain being also computer - then you're back to the
"hard problem".
Yes; I meant that it's no more or less a problem if there is no
physical computer.
--
Stathis Papaioannou
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