On 05 Jun 2016, at 23:41, Brent Meeker wrote:
On 6/5/2016 4:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 05 Jun 2016, at 01:26, Bruce Kellett wrote:
On 5/06/2016 3:31 am, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 04 Jun 2016, at 01:28, Bruce Kellett wrote:
On 4/06/2016 4:16 am, Brent Meeker wrote:
If the world is a simulation, i.e. is being computed by a
Turing machine, then the computation can implement non-local
hidden variables and violate Bell's inequality in the simulated
world (in fact all its variables would be non-local since
locality and spacetime would just be computed phenomena).
Sure, Bell's theorem only rules out local hidden variables. If
you simulate non-local hidden variables (i.e., get the separated
experimenters to communicate non-locally), then of course you
can reproduce the quantum correlations. But I was under the
impression that the computationalist goal was to eliminate non-
locality. Separated experimenters, with as much computing power
as necessary, cannot simulate the quantum correlations by
performing only local computations.
You can simulate the whole (multiversial) structure, and the
observers will find that from their perspective, Bell's
inequality are violated. From outside, we can see (like Everett
saw) that it is just a case of self-duplication FPI. (Which
brings us back to the preceding thread of course).
Locally, Alice and Bob can simulate anything they like, and they
can simulate universes with non-local hidden variables, and
predict that within those worlds the Bell inequalities are
violated. But when they get back to their own world and compare
their results, they will find that the correlations between their
separate simulations of the results of spin measurements at
arbitrary angles invariably satisfy the inequalities. In other
words, they cannot, jointly, simulate the quantum results in any
world that they both inhabit. The MWI view from outside is no
different -- non-locality is inescapable.
You don't need to simulate hidden non- local variable. You need to
just simulate the wave function.
Which depends on both spatial variables of the particles in an EPR
experiment and so it non-local.
I don't see that. The singlet state make the first person sharable
probabilities depending on state of far away particles, but when
measurement are done, each person just localize itself, and its EPR-
partner, in some branches where the states have always been well
defined. The non separability is due to the fact that the results are
determined by interfering (amplitudes of) probabilities, but those are
explained by the FPI on the first person experiences on all relevant
(= similar to me at the correct description level or below) states.
The non-locality is purely phenomenological. My probability to stay
here (from my first person perspective) is 1 minus the probability
that I appear elsewhere (with naive mechanism + naive physics). In
that sense computationalism is super-non local, but that does not
entail the existence of physical action/interaction at a distance.
Bruno
Brent
It will take a super-exponential time to do so, but the many
couples of Alice and Bob will all (except for a negligeable subset)
detect non-locality in their respective branches, although we, from
outside, will know that noting non-local ever happened. The non-
locality will only be a FPI statistical appearances.
It is the same for "our" multiverse. It obeys a deterministic local
equations, and non-locality in all branches are a local relative
appearance, like the indeterminacy itself.
Bruno
Bruce
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