On 25 Jan 2017, at 06:08, Brent Meeker wrote:
On 1/24/2017 10:30 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 24 Jan 2017, at 00:31, Brent Meeker wrote:
HERE is an Aeon essay by Carlo Rovelli on the amazing prescience
of our ancient forebears. It also a corrective to Bruno's frequent
assertion that it was only Plato to who taught that things might
be different than they appeared
I cite Pythagoras, and all the mystics of China and India, antic,
but still more represented in the East than in the West.
But the Milesian school were not mystics.
Plato is just a good reference. Plato himself is neutral but just
well aware of the alternative, and very cautious before concluding.
Socrates is mainly a refuter of theories. The Plato of the Timeaeus
is almost Aristotelian. The Plato of Parmenides is the Plato of the
neoplatonists, and the position quasi enforced by the
computationalist hypothesis.
We are not doing history here, we are just trying to make the
alternatives clear, and to look how some hypotheses can put weight
on some of them.
Where would I have said "only" Plato?
and that this contrary to the materialist school of Miletus.
That the philosophers from Thales school, where not only much better
physicists than either Plato or Aristotle, they were quite willing
to suppose that there was a deeper reality than immediate
perception. Leucippus and Democritus theory atoms and the void
hypothesized atoms that couldn't be seen.
But there were still conceive as material. I cite Plato and Aristotle
because it is there that the opposition between materialism and
immaterialism is the clearer. You remain in the Aristotelian type of
*meta*-physics. The whole point is that computationalism put Aristotle
materialism in doubt (to say the least). Thales, Eratosthene, and many
antic greeks were better physicists than Plato and Aristotle: nobody
doubted this. But the point here does not concern physics, but the
unknown fundamental science and the fact that the fundamental science
is, or is not, physics. It is a point in metaphysics/theology.
Bruno
Brent
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