On 18 Feb 2017, at 01:19, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Dark Matter and Dark Energy remain complete mysteries.
> As far as I can tell, what we have is a falsification of
current
theories. They appear to be good enough approximations for many
things, but then they fail at predicting the expansion rate of the
universe right? Maybe it's dark matter, maybe it's something else,
They are 2 separate mysteries. Dark Matter is a mysterious
something that makes up 28% of the universe and holds galaxies and
clusters of galaxies together. Dark Energy is a even more mysterious
something that makes up 69% of everything and causes the expansion
of the entire universe to accelerate. And about 4% of the universe
is made of the sort of normal matter and energy that until about 20
years ago was the only type we thought existed.
There is a straightforward extension of General Relativity and
Quantum Mechanics that explains Dark Energy, however it gives a
figure that is 10^120 too large, it's been called the worse mismatch
between theory and observation in the entire history of science. I
think it's fair to say we really don't have a clue about Dark
Energy, and Dark Matter is almost as confusing.
> If science failed so far at explaining something, then it
doesn't matter?
Science has an explanation for consciousness that works
beautifully, consciousness is the way information feels when it is
being processed intelligently. What science doesn't yet have is a
complete theory explaining how to produce intelligence, but enormous
progress has been made in just the last few years.
>> The study of intelligence, now that's important!
> That is a statement of faith. Gizmo worshiping.
At least 3 times a week for the last 5 years somebody on this
list has accused me of being religious,
That "accusation" would have been a compliment.
No, I accuse you of being pseudo-religious, like the Churches, that is
dogmatic. In fact, I don't accuse you, I just point on the fact that
when we assume computationalism, as you do, you can NOT invoke your
ontological commitment (Matter) to select a computation among the
infinitely many computations going through your state and realized in
the arithmetical reality. It is not a valid way to explain the
experiences. It is equivalent with the creationist dogmatic "God made
it". Calling such God "matter" explains nothing, and hides the problem.
apparently in the hope that I'll burst into tears and cry myself to
sleep. It's not going to happen,
> Yes, it's important in a sense. I too am interested in
having medical breakthroughs, freedom from labour and all the nice
things that AI can bring.
It's important even if you're only interested in philosophical
problems, such as why did Evolution bother to make conscious animals
at all.
See my answer and questions to Telmo.
>> I don't quite understand why an omnipotent being would
"want" anything, He should already have it. Nevertheless the
religious say God does want certain things and they know exactly
precisely what they are and they insist on telling us about it;
and they also insist God can't get what He wants on His own, we
have to help the poor fellow achieve His aims.
> You are describing Abrahamic religions. I don't believe in
them either.
I don't think the Hindu religion is significantly less
stupid. There are some forms of Buddhism and Taoism that aren't
stupid but they aren't religions, they don't say anything about God,
don't say faith is a virtue, and don't even claim they are revealing
something new about the world, instead they are doing something much
more modest, they are giving personal advice; they are saying this
is a way to be happy. Not the only way, maybe not the best way, just
a way.
>I think you are not interested in what Bruno has to say.
There's
nothing wrong with that, but it's just a personal preference of yours.
Well yes, but how could not being interested in something not be
a personal preference.
Idem.
Bruno
John K Clark
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