Hi Brent, Which book by Vic would you recommend one to read first?
Cheers, Telmo. On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 5:22 AM, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote: > Interesting essay. When I was helping edit Vic's books I made a similar > argument too him - that the reason his Point-of-View-Invariance seemed so > powerful in rederiving physics is that physicist were only interested in > things that obeyed POVI. > > You wrote: > > Let us say we were interested in describing all phenomena in our universe. > What type of mathematics would we need? How many axioms would be needed for > mathematical structure to describe all the phenomena? Of course, it is hard > to predict, but it is even harder not to speculate. One possible conclusion > would be that if we look at the universe in totality and not bracket any > subset of phenomena, the mathematics we would need would have no axioms at > all. That is, the universe in totality is devoid of structure and needs no > axioms to describe it. Total lawlessness! The mathematics are just plain > sets without structure. This would finally eliminate all metaphysics when > dealing with the laws of nature and mathematical structure. It is only the > way we look at the universe that gives us the illusion of structure. > > I"m sure you're aware of Max Tegmark's "Mathematical Universe Hypothesis" in > which all possible mathematical structures obtain in some universe; and his > later restriction of this idea to the "Computable Universe Hypothesis" in > which only Turing computable universes exist. But you are probably not > aware of the ideas of Bruno Marchal, a mathematical logician in Brussels. > He has a much more worked out idea of reality based on the Universal > Dovetailing computer which he combines with the assumption that > consciousness is certain kind of information processing to conclude that the > UD computation produces all experience and implies physics. It seems like a > crankish idea at first, but Bruno is a very nice and serious guy, not at all > a crank (though I don't agree with all of his theories). Here's his basic > paper: > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/publications/SANE2004MARCHALAbstract.html > I know him from his posting on the Everything list; > [email protected] > > Brent > > > > On 7/10/2017 3:56 PM, Noson Yanofsky wrote: > > Thank you! > > > > Vic Stenger’s books are always very interesting!!! > > > > Attached is a paper on finding lawlessness. > > And here is a link to another paper that was just published: > http://nautil.us/issue/49/the-absurd/chaos-makes-the-multiverse-unnecessary > > > > Please pass them on to whoever would be interested in them. > > > > All the best, > > Noson > > From: Brent Meeker [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, July 10, 2017 4:48 PM > To: spinozalens via Free Thinkers Physics Discussion Group > <[email protected]>; [email protected]; Atvoid-2 > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Lawrence Krauss Should Have Paid Attention to Vic > > > > It's gratifying to see Vic's contribution to the philosophy of science > recognized. I think it's important to recognize though that mathematics is > not "effective" in weeding out false physics theories. Intelligence has > evolutionary advantage insofar as it is good at prediction; which is > implicitly projection of regularities into the future. So humans have a > built-in tendency to see patterns - even where they are specious. They can > build mathematical theories which don't have any reference reality, just as > they can invent superstitions about physical events. > > Anyway, thanks to Prof Yanofsky. > > Brent > > On 7/10/2017 8:14 AM, spinozalens via Free Thinkers Physics Discussion Group > wrote: > > In Marcus Chown's delightful book " The Never Ending Days of Being Dead" a > whole chapter ( Patterns in the Void) is devoted to Vic's ideas " Where The > Laws Of Physics Comes From" Chown used good judgement including this chapter > in his book. I think that had Lawrence Krauss been more familiar with > Vic's work , he possibly wouldn't have walked in the minefield he did with > his book. "A Universe From Nothing" In my opinion Vic had a very good > answer to this question. This answer has not received enough attention in > the physics and philosophy communities. Here mathematician Noson S Yanofky > fleshes out these ideas in more detail. > > > > Bob Zannelli > > > > > > Why Mathematics Works So Well > > Noson S. Yanofsky > > (Submitted on 28 Jun 2015) > > A major question in philosophy of science involves the unreasonable > effectiveness of mathematics in physics. Why should mathematics, created or > discovered, with nothing empirical in mind be so perfectly suited to > describe the laws of the physical universe? We review the well-known fact > that the symmetries of the laws of physics are their defining properties. We > show that there are similar symmetries of mathematical facts and that these > symmetries are the defining properties of mathematics. By examining the > symmetries of physics and mathematics, we show that the effectiveness is > actually quite reasonable. In essence, we show that the regularities of > physics are a subset of the regularities of mathematics. > > > > > > https://arxiv.org/abs/1506.08426 > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Free Thinkers Physics Discussion Group" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/atvoid-2/15d2d10eb24-2482-168e1%40webprd-m23.mail.aol.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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