On 12 Dec 2017, at 13:17, Bruce Kellett wrote:
On 12/12/2017 10:47 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 12 Dec 2017, at 11:12, Bruce Kellett wrote:
On 12/12/2017 8:20 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 11 Dec 2017, at 23:15, Bruce Kellett wrote:
On 12/12/2017 1:12 am, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 10 Dec 2017, at 23:38, Bruce Kellett wrote:
On 11/12/2017 2:19 am, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 09 Dec 2017, at 00:03, Bruce Kellett wrote:
On 9/12/2017 4:21 am, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Similarly, a shroedinger car, once alive + dead, will never
become a pure alive, or dead cat. It will only seems so for
anyone looking at the cat, in the {alive, dead} base/
apparatus. Superposition never disappear, and a coin moree
or less with a precise position, is always a superposition
of a coin with more or less precise momenta. The relation
is given by the Fourier transforms, which gives the
relative accessible states/worlds.
I pointed out that for a macroscopic object such as a coin,
the uncertainty relations give uncertainties in positions
and/or momentum far below any level of possible detection.
Of possible practical detection. That is good FAPP, but
irrelevant for theoretical consideration.
This is a purely rhetorical objection, Bruno. And when you
trot this out, as you do regularly, I know that your purpose
is to obfuscate, and hide the fact that you have no rational
argument to offer.
You confuse physics and metaphysics. The difference is not
rhetorical, but fundamental in this thread.
Rubbish. The central point of contention on this thread is
whether a coin toss can be regarded as a classical event, with
probabilities given by ignorance of the initial conditions, or
as a quantum event with probabilities given by purely quantum
uncertainties.
This is a straightforward question of physics, and has nothing
to do with metaphysics. As usual, you introduce the term
'metaphysics' merely to obfuscate, because you have no
intelligent response to the clear physics of the situation.
I was using "metaphysics" in opposition to your instrumentalist
FAPP distraction. Metaphysics and/or theology involves the
question of the existence of the universe(s), parallel or not.
Then you make ad hominem insult in place of argument. I guess
your goal is not to enlighten me.
You are the one making the personal attacks. You can do
metaphysics in the privacy of your own home, but here in public, I
talk about verifiable physics.
My attack was on your use of the "FAPP" to change the subject of
the discussion which was on metaphysics at the start: the existence
of the (obviously undetectable) other term of some macroscopic
superposition. (It was not ad hominem at all).
Neither were any of my comments personal attacks. The original
discussion was about whether or not the world split on the coin
toss. Very little to do with metaphysics, and your continued
introduction of irrelevant considerations has been nothing more than
a distraction from the main discussion, adding nothing.
Yes, the question was about some world, which we assume to exist. But
that is a metaphysical assumption in all cases, even in classical
physics, and even more about orthogonal classical state that we cannot
“rec-cohere” in practice. The metaphysical assumption that there is a
“universe” (in the Aristotelian primary sense) i.e. (weak) materialism
is even an assumption which can be shown to be logically incompatible
with Mechanism (in cognitive science or theology/metaphysics).
I guess that you might be confusing evidence for physics with evidence
for some metaphysics.
Bruno
Bruce
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