On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 1:41:37 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 12/13/2017 5:24 PM, agrays...@gmail.com <javascript:> wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 at 10:44:14 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 12/13/2017 2:20 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 at 9:15:36 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/13/2017 2:45 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> * BUT for a nucleus of a radioactive element, the nucleus is never >>> Decayed and Undecayed SIMULTANEOUSLY.* >>> >>> Sure it is. It's in a coherent superposition of those states until it >>> interacts with the environment. >>> >>> Brent >>> >> >> * That's the conventional QM wisdom and the cause of the paradox of a cat >> Alive and Dead simultaneously. As I explained, the fallacy is rooted in an >> unjustified generalization of the double slit experiment where the >> probability waves do, in fact, exist simultaneously. What waves do you >> claim are interacting for the radioactive nucleus to produce coherence? >> Tell me about them. I am from Missouri. AG* >> >> >> You seem to think that coherence requires two different waves. This is >> the wrong way to look at it. In Young's slits experiment there is only one >> wave, which goes through both slits and interferes with itself. >> > > > *That's exactly how I see it! Interference requires two waves which > interact with each other. * > > > *NO. This is false! * *There are not two waves.* You can write it as > two parts, just as you can write a description of an ocean wave as the part > on your left and the part on your right. But so long as they are coherent, > maintaining a fixed phase relation, they are one wave. >
*You're splitting hairs, engaging in sophism. For the single wave going through both slits, Feynman calculates the norm squared of | A + B |, where A and B denote the waveS going through left and right slits respectively. Both are obviously identical, with the result of coherent interference. >From this analysis we get the interpretation that the the system is simultaneously in all states of a superposition. AGNoteworthy is that fact that if you reference "coherence" on Wiki, the description always invokes multiple waves of the same frequency. If you want to assert coherence without multiple waves, and NOT using the double slit result, you have some heavy lifting to do. AG* > > > *This is exactly what we see in Young's slits experiments. AG * > >> And unstable nucleus has a probability amplitude that includes a >> "decayed" part and a "not decayed" part. It's a tunneling problem. >> > > *I don't doubt the existence of amplitudes. What I do doubt. and in fact > deny, is interference between two waves that don't exist simultaneously. * > > > You keep referring to two waves. * There are not two waves. *There's > only one wave which interferes with itself. It is typically written as > |not-decayed> + |decayed>, but that's just a choice of basis. It could as > well be written |unstable nucleus>. > *OK, unstable nucleus. Makes no difference to what I am arguing; namely, that coherence requires more than one wave, simultaneously, which is what double slit slows, even though the experiment obviously starts out with one wave. AG* > > *If there's no interference, then the cat cannot be Alive and Dead > simultaneously. Tunneling can exist, but still, no simultaneous > interacting, interfering waves. Is there any advantage to believing in two > waves which don't exist simultaneous, can interfere with each other? AG* > > > You are confused. > You're the one with a cat which Alive and Dead simultaneously for the very short time until decoherence occurs. So it is arguable who is really confused. AG > > Brent > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
