Listening in on the direct signals -- e.g. the gravity waves themselves -- that are produced in these extreme merger events is probably our best window into probing into what is actually occuring to the dynamically interacting forces at these energy scales. No atom smasher we could build can match the scale of say two neutron stars merging into a black hole. I think astronomy, and specifically and especially gravity wave astronomy is the most promising future direction of experimentation and falsification of dead branches of enquiry in the realm of high energy physics. I suspect most agree that as LIGO type detectors improve these more subtle harmonics, overtones, echoes etc. that may be detected in the signal are going to become the basis for evaluation (or re-evaluation) of our current understanding. Your speculation that we may become absorbed into inner world's within our own minds may turn out to be true, it certainly appears that we are becoming sucked into our devices and the "worlds" within them and that a direct neural interface would lead to a whole new level of immersive experience. But it could be a phase of infatuation that may play out and reach some maximum degree of penetration, in much the same way as most people not becoming addicted to opiods for example... though many become totally lost to the addiction. Chris
On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 5:15 PM, Lawrence Crowell<[email protected]> wrote: I think quantum gravitation theories might be put to some observational tests this way. I would not worry about wormholes and any possible interstellar future. Kip Thorne aside, and wormholes are sort of "his second baby" after LIGO, I doubt they exist and further even if they existed we would unlikely ever enter one. The current trajectory of technology is to find better ways of going nowhere ever faster. Notice how people everywhere sit or wander around looking at smart phones. I suspect these will communicate directly with the brain before terribly long. We are not going into outer-space, but more into virtual worlds of inner space. Digitally enhanced mental perceptions are coming, and Homo sapiens I suspect will becomes completely lost in it. It could be that the majority of people who will ever go into outer-space have already done so. LC On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 7:44:29 PM UTC-5, cdemorsella wrote: Thanks for your comments, Sci-fi fans will be disappointed. I was intrigued by the mention of these potential echoes contained within the off the scale intense ring down phase of a merger and also by what that would imply, if echoes are actually discovered to exist within the final moments of these extreme events. Gravitational wave astronomy is in it's infancy and as instruments improve, my hope is that it can help speed forward movement in the quest for a unified theory. After all gravity waves are a direct sensing of the primary evolving dynamics of extreme systems in which our current best theories fall apart and begin spitting out infinities. Chris On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 3:51 PM, Lawrence Crowell<goldenfield...@gmail. com> wrote: My tendency is to say that wormholes do not exist. There are problems with these types of solutions. The biggest is they requires a source term that has negative energy or T^{00} < 0. This would mean the quantum field that defines this source is not bounded below. This means an infinite well spring of radiation can exist. These types of spacetimes have other oddities. A wormhole can have one of its openings boosted or accelerated out and then accelerated back so the wormhole has closed timelike curves. This means a quantum state could be sent into the wormhole and it would return prior to then. This means a quantum state is duplicated. This is a non-unitary process forbidden by quantum mechanics. So I see this as another obstruction to the idea of wormholes. The ring down, and I think as well the peak, of gravitational radiation may carry information about the quantum nature of black holes. Certainly if wormholes collide the quantum information of the wormhole would be contained in these signals or ring down. These types of data will likely require a spacebased system such as e-LISA in order to capture so called gravitational memory. This is where the configuration of test masses is different after the passage of the gravitational wave. The earliest projected launch date ESA will loft this system is 2034. We have a bit of a wait. LC On Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 3:01:53 PM UTC-5, cdemorsella wrote: As LIGO increases its sensitivity it is entering a domain in which its instruments should be able to detect theorized ring down phase echoes (this is the very last portion of a merging event of massive bodies that produces a rapidly increasing frequency of waves that lead up to the moment of merging, as the two merging objects undergo a final increasingly tight cycle of rapidly narrowing orbits right before merging) This increased sensitivity shouldd enable it to discoverif these hypothetical echoes if they actually are being produced by the observed event. If such echoes are discovered in these signals that would have major implications for cosmology and would be evidence for the actual existence of wormholes in our universe. Quoting some selected paragraphs, from a Scientific American article: "When two wormholes collide, they could produce ripples in space-time that ricochet off themselves. Future instruments could detect these gravitational “echoes,” providing evidence that these hypothetical tunnels through space-time actually exist, a new paper suggests.... To resolve this so-called black hole information paradox, some physicists have suggested that event horizons don’t exist. Instead of abysses from which nothing can return, black holes actually could be a host of speculative black-hole-like objects that lack event horizons, such as boson stars, gravastars, fuzzballs and even wormholes, which were theorized by Albert Einstein and physicist Nathan Rosen decades ago. .... In a 2016 study in the journal Physical Review Letters, physicists hypothesized that if two wormholes collided, they would produce gravitational waves very similar to those generated from merging black holes. The only difference in the signal would be in the last phase of the merger, called the ringdown, when the newly combined black hole or wormhole relaxes into its final state.... In the paper, published in January in the journal Physical Review D, the team of physicists from Belgium and Spain analyzed wormholes that rotate, which are more realistic than the non-spinning variety studied in the 2016 work. They calculated what the resulting gravitational-wave signal would look like if the wormholes merged. Because the strength of the signal drops during the ringdown, that section of the signal would be too weak for LIGO’s current configuration to detect. But that could change in the future, as researchers continue to upgrade and fine-tune the instrument, the researchers said. “By the time we are running at full design sensitivity, I believe it may be possible to resolve the ringdown phase where these echoes are predicted to be,” said Stuver, who’s also a member of the LIGO team." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-li...@ googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups. com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/ group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. 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