> On 14 Mar 2019, at 13:54, John Clark <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 3:40 AM Philip Thrift <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
> > We may even have robots that can sit and talk with us about current events,
> > know everything in Wikipedia, etc. How "creative" they will be is an open
> > question.
>
> I don't think it's a open question at all. I can state without reservation
> that regardless of how intelligent computers become they will never be
> creative because the word "creative" now means whatever computers aren't good
> at. Yet. And thus due to Moore's Law and improved programing the meaning of
> the word constantly changes. What was creative yesterday isn't creative today.
>
> > On mathematics: Of course mathematics changes, because it is a type of
> > language, and languages change.
>
> If mathematics is just a language (as I think it is)
Consider arithmetic. The language are the well formed expressions, using the
logical symbols, and the no logical symboles like s, +, *, and “0”.
But a theory is concerned with proofs (syntactical) and semantics (a reality
supposed to make the proposition true). After Gödel we know that *all*
effective theories (effective = the proof are mechanically checkable) miss the
arithmetical standard reality. A theory is a set of formal proposition that we
believe true in that standard model/reality. It never captures the whole
reality, which provably extends any theory. Even ZF is incomplete with respect
to the arithmetical reality.
> then it can not be used to construct things, in particular it can't, by
> itself without the use of matter, construct a Turing Machine as Bruno claims
> it can.
But why would that be needed. You assume some primary matter, but there are no
evidence for this.
> English is also a language but an English word has no meaning without an
> English speaker with a physical brain to hear it.
… and without some reality to give sense to the proposition. But the
arithmetical reality contains, a bit like a bloc-universe, all the
computations. Once you associated consciousness to computations, a material
primary universe seems to add unnecessary complexity. The arithmetical reality
cannot build matter, but contains all dreams/experience of the material.
Bruno
>
> John K Clark
>
>
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