One could also look at it as a pragmatist. Say I want to *make something*. I could say "I want to make it out of arithmetic (numbers)." But ways to actually do that is something like to write a program where "numbers" do things in a computer. But we know what is going on here is electrons moving through circuits and pixels. It could be "running" in my brain (assuming I can imagine the program executing). But that does nobody else any good. Or I could type it up and file it away for later on a hard drive. Electrons, circuits, pixels, brain cells, hard drives. Matter. On whether some ultimate Löb-Gödel theorem prover can "explain" self-aware experiences: I still think that there are non-numerical first-class experiential entities that are needed to completely "flesh out" true experience. (And those can only come from matter.) - pt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.