> On 24 Jul 2019, at 22:11, spudboy100 via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > I bet that biology is reducible to physics
OK. Reasonable bet in the absence of string evidence to the contrary. > and the belief, since that is what it is, a belief, is one reason we have > missed the boat on the life sciences apparently. We still can' (won't) bring > basic physical elements and from this create organisms. My suspicion that > since the days or Urey, scientists have backed off why this is not so. Unless > we invoke the elan vitale? :-D The élan vitale, of course, does not add anything to “we are ignorant”, and is the usual reification of ignorance done when theology felt in the trap, and is used to prevent research. What people seems to miss is that Mechanism explains consciousness, entirely, in the sense that it explains the discourse by the machine on “consciousness” (that only thing that they know for sure), and it explains why consciousness is mysterious, and has to felt that way (and why consciousness existence is incompatible with mechanism+materialism, even in their weakest forms). I think scientist have been able to build a virus from scratch, some years ago. A bacteria is just far beyond current days technology. Even a complex protein is beyond our technology. Bruno > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> > To: everything-list <[email protected]> > Sent: Wed, Jul 24, 2019 5:59 am > Subject: Re: Historical contingency and the futility of reductionism > > >> On 22 Jul 2019, at 22:33, spudboy100 via Everything List >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> wrote: >> >> I would say that physics is diff from inorganic chemistry and biological >> science, in the sense that how academics observe and measure phenomena. Its >> a Venn diagram in which the circles or ovals align one on top of the other, >> maybe off-center here and there, but the same thing. > > Biology is certainly different from physics, but that does not mean that > terrestrial biology is not conceptually reducible to physics. > > Like with mechanism, physics remains different from arithmetic and computer > science, but is conceptually reducible to or explained by, arithmetic. > > It is important to distinguish the ontology (what we assume at the start, and > which is eventually shown *necessary* to assume), and the phenomenologies > derived in the ontology, which does not introduce any new assumptions (only > definitions). > > Bruno > > > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bruno Marchal <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> To: everything-list <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Sent: Mon, Jul 22, 2019 9:31 am >> Subject: Re: Historical contingency and the futility of reductionism >> >> >>> On 22 Jul 2019, at 11:44, Philip Thrift <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Why chemistry (and biology) is not physics >>> >>> https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/the-curious-wavefunction/historical-contingency-and-the-futility-of-reductionism-why-chemistry-and-biology-is-not-physics/ >>> >>> <https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/the-curious-wavefunction/historical-contingency-and-the-futility-of-reductionism-why-chemistry-and-biology-is-not-physics/> >>> >>> >>> Partly why I'm a materialist, not a physicalist. >>> >>> But this has implications for arithmetical reality (?). >> >> If Chemistry is not physics, it would mean that ours substitution level >> would be in between QM and chemistry (something slightly more complex to be >> sure, but it is a reasonable approximation). >> >> Now, I am not convinced by the paper above that chemistry is not reducible >> to quantum mechanics, especially that chemistry count the most successful >> application of quantum mechanics. >> >> I have no definite ideas on all this. The paper might confuse []p and []p & >> p, like 99,9998% of materialist thinkers here. >> >> Bruno >> >> >>> >>> @philipthrift >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ff0ad61c-1be0-4932-8e16-ccce4b709ff7%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ff0ad61c-1be0-4932-8e16-ccce4b709ff7%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/5F43B183-2405-42A2-B979-BCA8B737DF03%40ulb.ac.be >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/5F43B183-2405-42A2-B979-BCA8B737DF03%40ulb.ac.be?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1752692774.5124225.1563827609817%40mail.yahoo.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1752692774.5124225.1563827609817%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/BE30DEB9-79C9-4A31-A94F-ED21C34A5A6E%40ulb.ac.be > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/BE30DEB9-79C9-4A31-A94F-ED21C34A5A6E%40ulb.ac.be?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1876891389.6264953.1563999064905%40mail.yahoo.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1876891389.6264953.1563999064905%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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