On Friday, August 9, 2019 at 8:25:48 PM UTC-5, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 08:53:39AM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 3:22 AM Jason Resch <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > > > > On Friday, August 9, 2019, Bruce Kellett <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > > > > On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 8:59 PM Jason Resch <[email protected] > <javascript:>> > > wrote: > > > > > > What role do you see decoherence playing in consciousness? > In > > other words, could you explain why shedding IR photons into > an > > external environment necessary for the mind to be conscious? > > > > > > Consciousness is a classical phenomenon since the brain is a > classical > > object (not in a state of quantum coherence). So decoherence, > and the > > emergence of the classical from the quantum, is essential for > > consciousness. Just as to be conscious is to be conscious of > something, > > such as the external world. > > > > > > > > You appear to be extrapolating a causation from the appearance of a > > correlation: > > "The brain is classical, and the brain is conscious, therefore all > > consciousness must be classical." > > > > The conclusion doesn't follow from the premise. > > > > > > Show me consciousness that does not involve decohered classical matter, > such as > > in a brain. > > > > > > Also, is a brain really conscious of the external world, or is it > conscious > > of it's internal states? The redness of a red apple does not exist > > physically. Redness is an invention of the brain, which cannot be > found in > > the external world of colorless particles. > > > > > > But the physical world does contain photons of various wavelengths -- > which > > correspond to different colours. Correlation does not necessarily > indicate > > causation, but scientific study does reveal the underlying relations > between > > things. > > > > Bruce > > > > Riffing further on this theme, conscious must be intimately tied up > with a process for deriving meaning from data. Given a continuous > ontology (eg ontic-ψ), this must involve a discretisation process - > decoherence pretty much fits the bill here, and so Brent's often > posed-insight that consciousness must involve an interaction between > an observer system, and an environment that is traced over makes a lot > of sense. > > Going the other way, computationalism entails via the UDA that the > physical world has this continuous character. So computationalism must > ultimately address Brent's insigh...
That the *physical *nature of matter is discrete but the *psychical* nature (of brain matter) is continuous is an interesting idea. There is also the question of time, of which this is relevant: "The Dynamic Theory of Time [says] time is strikingly different from the dimensions of space. ... The dynamic aspect of music is essential to its aesthetic value, and is directly tied to the dynamic aspect of time." ref: “Sideways Music", in (link: https://markosian.net/online-papers/) markosian.net/online-papers/ <https://t.co/YshzLEUTzc?amp=1> @philipthrift -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a66a92ae-db14-477b-b066-ad2499e271d5%40googlegroups.com.
