On 9/16/2019 2:51 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, at 09:32, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:
Any consciousness that invents that idea in itself.
Ok, but we clearly have some common ground. I can send you this
message and you can read it.
Here's my simplistic / informal understanding of what is going on...
Like you, I tend to believe that consciousness is more fundamental
than physics, and I also agree that "human physics" is just an idea in
consciousness.
I think this equivocates on "fundamental". Consciousness is
epistemically fundamental. It's the basis of knowledge and specifically
of the knowledge that is sharable (objective). But based on that
knowledge we have developed a theory of the world in which physics seems
to be fundamental in the ontological sense. This theory implies that
consciousness is a phenomenon emergent from certain complex processes,
probably of the kind called computations. There is a lot of empirical
(sharable, objective) support for this, i.e. physical effects on the
brain change the consciousness.
Brent
I think that we might diverge in that I also believe that science
points to something real, as in, real phenomena with discernible
patterns that you and me can agree with. My understanding is that you,
me, everyone else are "windows" through which reality can be
experienced. As far as I am concerned, first person experience is
REALLY REAL(tm) and independent third person reality is a useful model
with an unknown (perhaps unknowable) ontological status.
My point: why wouldn't an algorithm become such a "window" from which
reality can be experienced? What's special about wet brains? This
seems particularly obvious to me given that I have never even met you
in person. You could be an algorithm running in silicon, as far as I
am concerned.
Telmo.
On Sunday, 15 September 2019 23:28:11 UTC+3, [email protected] wrote:
You mean human consciousness or something bigger?
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List
<[email protected]>
To: Everything List <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Sep 15, 2019 7:39 am
Subject: Re: Why Consciousness Cannot Be Algorithmic
The reason is much simpler: "Physics" is just an idea in
consciousness.
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